assuming you decide to have a backstory,

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assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:18 am

could you add this race, the Ta'Yawhas? just like the humans symbol is a star and the xyloxi is an atom and the rift demons is a starburst and the relics is a pie chart, their orange symbol is a small stick figure. their energy is biological (yes, they have ****ing mastered biological energy, man).

an advantage of this race is how powerful their guns are, despite how seemingly weak they are. for one, despite the rather small size of their fighters (so small they count as vectors in your size, see the 4th moon of xyth's page for more information. they have discovered the secret to quadruple layering of hull. for another, said hull is almost entirely made out of flesh (the exception being the ecoskeleton). for another, their windows have been perfected-- they are almost like human eyes now and wherever the pilot looks, nanolasers detect him looking there and adjust the dome to show where hes looking. now you can actually see the insectoid pilot as he flips you off while passing by. for a fourth, the warp gate/pulse fusion engine essentially puts a portal from where they are to a few feet ahead, and then in the time it takes for said warp gate to recharge (or if he is turning, lock onto place and destination), the pulse engine can do the rest.

that is just the fighters. the ta'yawha big cruisers and such are downright huge-- some of their ships are big enough to be war carriers, yet if you sent an actual war carrier against the hyojen (the weakest of the 6 biggest), you might as well send them on a suicide mission. no, it wouldnt be quite as big a waste, as a matter of fact. their very biggest and most powerful is the pegasus. however, it's power plant is not, in fact, merely biological; no, it gets it's energy from every source (and as a card you have to get at least 1 of every energy to deploy it)-- it gets it from solar and gravity as a main source, though, for the ship is so big that it can fit an actual star inside. it uses it's gate whenever possible for dimensional energy, it's nuclear power plants are good for fusion energy (and this also has the upside of the nuclear waste making the star churn out more energy), the star produces dark energy as well as solar, the pegasus gets it from everywhere!

I'm not sure what the cards should be, not yet at least. i will post it in 2 weeks, once i have gone through summer camp.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Greywing » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:08 pm

Clever idea, but i don't plan on adding any extra races. It would mean redesigning the game from scratch for most mechanics.

Plus, ships with flesh hulls are kinda creepy :p
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby PenneyRZ » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:29 pm

There already is a back story in Greywing's head.

Also, how is a ship supposed to be large enough to fit a sun inside it?

You can fit 1.3 million earths inside the sun.

How would you even get enough materials to build a ship as big as 1.3 million earths?

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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:15 pm

birth and genetic ****-ups, thats how, penney.

grey, if an excoskeleton would look creepy, scrap the firewing as it looks creepy too. oh wait! it's not really that creepy even though it's liquid outer hull is biological! besides, it doesnt have to look creepy in the first place. one of their fighters is loosely shaped after this: Image

only it looks a bit bonier. also, aren't the caes'cix species ships themselves? they should look creepy then. you dont have to make the ta'yawha any more creepy than the mithrael. this could also serve as another model:


Image

i understand the coding, however the game dynamics have been changed so much that a new species could be remade with all the recoding your doing. same with the dynamics, if they have survived this much then they can survive a new species entering in a similar style and reason to the humans (even if someone other than them forced them out, unlike the humans who forced themselves out)

and penney, did you know that our star is far from the smallest? there are some red dwarves that are the size of pluto for crying out loud, so if you can fit pluto in a ship, you can fit a star in a ship. it's that simple.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby PenneyRZ » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:01 am

The least massive red dwarf has about 7.5% the mass of our sun which still makes it about as big as about 100,000 earths which is about the size of 600,000 plutos.

That is still one large ship.

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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Greywing » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:32 am

Not to mention it's mass, in case you decide to move it around. The energy needed for that might come in part from the star, but then you'll rather have bigger stars for more energy over time.
Oh and the pressure from the solar wind and all that, and any nearby planets that might be trapped in the star's gravitational well - not to mention the gravitational tides from them moving about.

Something like a ring - and by extention, multiple rings, or even an almost closed sphere around a star, of which the interior surface is made habitable, is the subject of Larry Niven's Ringworld. Which is a great scifi book by a great scifi author.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:25 pm

the solution to the mass, greywing: a combination of a system of antigravity wells and countergravity beams. the antigrav wells make it so that the star does not attract anything outside the ship (ie, it wont attract pest planets), while the countergrav beams are a highly successful form of tractor beam that prevent the star from getting in the way of the navigation systems whilst at the same time allowing the extraction of gravitational energy.

the primary reason for having the star is not for energy purposes, as a matter of fact. the ta'yawha created a cannon to be put on the ship that used two beams, one made of matter, the other of antimatter. the two collide right before hitting the target, and so, a massive supernova-like explosion ensues. if this does not destroy the target, the black hole will. this overpowered weapon will not be included in hidden dimensions even though the pegasus has it. the pegasus is the only one with this weapon as a result of it being the only ship with a reliable antimatter source (the star inside).

instead, it will be so huge that it will be immune to instant-kill effects such as the spark and the antimatter bomb. these do, however, deal a hefty amount of damage (it takes three instant-kills to destroy it as each does 20 damage to it while it has 50 hitpoints, this can be changed by fortification and healing). it has... 15? 20? attack. yup, that's a reasonable amount of damage for ion cannons and proton cannons.

oh, and the solar wind is where the antimatter is extracted from, btw.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby PenneyRZ » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:44 pm

Is this just supposed to sound sci-fi like?

How does this ship with 50 life live through a spark when other ships with 100 life don't?

The spark seems to be Luke Skywalker'ish where it can target the only weak point on the whole ship that encompasses the size of a single exhaust vent.

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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:50 pm

because of the enormous size.

could a single nuke destroy the united states? no. did the atomic bomb end up destroying the empire of japan (essentially, an abomination that ate its way to 100 life)? yes. is it logical that if the united states survives a nuke while japan cant, that the pegasus survives an instakill while a 100 life abomination doesnt? yes.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby PenneyRZ » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:14 pm

The way you are describing this ship, it is as big as 100,000 earths. If it were that large, it could easily destroy the United States with one nuke if the nuke were even a tiny fraction of the ships size.

AFAIK, there are no ships in this game that are even remotely as large as the United States. Heck, the Vector probably isn't much bigger than a NASA space shuttle and that is an x/12.

Not to mention, one nuke didn't destroy the empire of japan. The prospect of being hit by one or more every day for the rest of time caused them to lose their will to fight.

If they didn't care about their civillians or such small problems as having their whole island completely irradiated, they could have kept fighting for a much longer time.

In fact, it was pretty much deemed true that America probably couldn't take the island with a land invasion because there were not enough military people combined in all the branches of service to accomplish the objective.

Our only option was to just destroy their ability to make war, by destroying all their ships and planes and continually bombing any place where it was suspected they would try to make more OR to show our willingness to cause huge civillian casualties with our godlike weapons and to pretend like we had an infinite number of them laying around to keep using until they gave up.

Obviously, the quickest and most painless way in terms of reducing American casualties was to just bring a tank to a knife fight.

If Japan were the ones with the nuke and they vaporized both Los Angeles and New York City out of the middle of nowhere and we had no idea what even happened to the entire city and they threatened to do it again and again to all the rest of our major cities before we even knew what they were doing, we would have folded like a wet noodle too and we would all be speaking Japanese right now.

So, pretty much none of the analogies hold.

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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:32 pm

as far as you know, there are no ships as big as the united states? well, i posted the link to the ships however i guess i will have to quote the list...

8. War Carrier Class.

These are the biggest ships in the man-made fleets, compared to Battle Carriers, they can support up to 8 bays, mostly these bays are also capable of carrying up to 40 Vectors or 16 Fighter Class Ships or even several Heavy Fighter or Frigate Class ships. One such Carrier is basically a fleet on its own, they also have more offensive power as they can be equipped with the heaviest lasers and plasma cannons next to an array of turrets and is equipped with repair and support bays. These ships are the backbone of any armada that needs to fight a long and demanding battle far away from a base, often supported by several Battle Carriers. Prime example : Ravage.



yes im making a ship thats huge, but it's only one. most of the ta'yawha ships are much smaller, even if their frigates are too big to fit in a war carrier.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby PenneyRZ » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:05 pm

8 bays of 40 vectors each, assuming they were the size of a NASA space shuttle, would fit inside a ship as big around as a lot of 20,000 - 40,000 people cities. Thats like 5% of half of the counties in the U.S., much less the states, much less the whole U.S.

At least thats how I read it.

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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:59 pm

5%? wow, i didnt know we had more than 50 thousand people in the world.

well anyway, population does not equal size. otherwise, this planet would be much bigger than the sun as it does not have any population whatsoever.

anyway, doesn't this ship have the right to be massive? it is, after all, the ta'yawha flagship, and their home planet until they find a real planet to settle on (they came from another galaxy and entered this one, tried to settle, and nearly got destroyed when caught in a crossfire between CC and RV heavy cruisers). so now they are nomadic with a mobile home until they find a place that's not going to get caught in the middle of a titanic war between two massive factions that, if they were merely common factions, would have either destroyed themselves or each other by now.

does that make sense now?
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:51 am

this is one of the reports on one of their battleships...

the galaxos looks like this:


Image

the right two are pics from the front and back, the top left is a right-side-up view of the galaxos. therefore, you can tell that the bottom pic is the bottomside. the weapons to the sides are proton cannons, capable of doing massive damage. if this were to fight two hiragas and about 10 nagatos all by itself it would come back at about 20% damage, unless the commander is completely incompetant and has an equally bad crew. if this is the case, a good commander would easily mend the situation.

in earth years, the galaxos is approximately 250 years old, and even for the ta'yawhas it is rather old (most of them dont last 70 ta'yawhan years, and this one is only 112, 112.53 to be exact). that's how good it is! the reason most of the ships get retired at 70 years is that they rarely last 72. seriously, when a ship is 72 years old, no matter how well built it is, it deteriorates much more rapidly. by the 73d year the core melts down and the electronic equipment becomes useless. the galaxos on the other hand seems to know that it won'
t have a replacement should it break down, and so it's not getting tired whereas the others did.

anyhow, that bottom turret is a general use turret. sometimes it launches fighters (out of a freaking rail gun, usually they launch out the tail end and they always come back through there). sometimes it is a tractor beam. it is the generic gun.

it's advanced weapons are also capable of acting as thrusters-- nore how the front of the proton guns are gun barrels while the back look like engines. that is because when not in combat, the ship is designed to keep up with fighters-- follow them to the fight, join them (and win it for them), then return the base. most of the time the carriers designed to be regular carriers end up launching the fighters but before the battle ends, they take so heavy damage that if they don't pull out they will explode, and thus, the reason this ship was born. it escorts the fighters ("Thats supposed to be the fighters job you oaf!""well arent you the ones who always end up stranded because you outran your carrier?").

with that said, only three species have shields that can survive the proton cannons: ca'anians and technomancers, who based their anti-proton shields on, get a load of this, the rivi'i shields, even though the proton cannons literally shoot straight through them. the ca'anian shields can survive it mainly because of how very powerful they are (in fact, if your weapons bounce off the target they aren't dealing much damage). the technomancers only survive because the nomads have met with the ta'yawha before, long before they left their galaxy. some rivi'i experimental shields and a lucky few of the mithrae'l can take this damage, however its unreliable at this point.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Clebardman » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:08 pm

a star-sized ship would have great trouble in an asteroid field. and the structure would have to be extremely strong, or the ship would collapse due to his own mass. not to mention you're messing orbits of every solar system you're exploring, sending planets all over the galaxy for million years before they hit another planet/moon/star somewhere.

size or hull plating have no use on a modern warship anyway. it will always be easier and cheaper to build a weapon than it is to build a plating able to resist it. your ship would just be blasted by a fusion or antimatter bomb, messing electronics/generators/whatelse, leading to the star going supernova in the middle of your fleet...
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:44 pm

actually, didnt you even read what i was saying?

the star-holding ship (not merely star-sized) has stuff that makes the star's gravity effect nothing but the gravity-energy-generators. besides, my research tells me that pound for pound, bone is far stronger than steel, so it wouldn't have the problems that steel has. did i mention the star was grown by the ship while it was growing (no i guess i didn't).

the reason it's able to fit the star inside is solely for an overpowered weapon that is so powerful it actually made this ship go about 6 thousand years back in time, which is why it was able to fit the star inside to begin with. in addition, it is so strong that anything that isn't capable of completely removing an entire continent (or, in this case, dealing 10 damage all by itself for balance purposes) will bounce off it's hull. lasers are even reflected off of the bone, which is pretty hard to do.

and, um, the computers are so advanced and so EMP hardened that it would take years just to download them to a computer of this year (ie, a 2011 computer would literally take years to download everything on the pegasus computer), and most of it is redundancies designed to where if one of them isn't working properly it is replaced by another program of similar or same function, and then the program removed is fixed.

a not-so-obvious advantage of the massive size is the enormous amount of guns you can fit on it. that is why it's attack is so hefty. perhaps it's attack should be closer to 30 as it's guns are much more powerful than those of ships of it's time, fire far faster, and there are WAY more of them on the pegasus than on any other current ship. ergo, the ship, outside of game, is nearly indestructible, with only the aging problem being able to (theoretically) destroy it.
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby idea bulb » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:42 am

I must say that the ship you are describing from its size sounds like a baseship, the ship from which all other ships are launched and the structures are placed on. also, did you think about the damage that overpowered weapon would do on the ship that fired it?
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby DEEP SPACE » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:40 pm

idea bulb wrote:I must say that the ship you are describing from its size sounds like a baseship, the ship from which all other ships are launched and the structures are placed on. also, did you think about the damage that overpowered weapon would do on the ship that fired it?



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http://nulll-void.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=343
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby http404error » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:07 am

Bit late to cut in about Ringworld, but did anyone else notice that Larry Niven spelled backwards has a disk?
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Re: assuming you decide to have a backstory,

Postby Greywing » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:00 am

Heh it sounded familiar but i didn't see it until i looked it up. I used to have that card at one point too :p
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