[HD 3] Card popup

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Greywing
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[HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:06 pm

Here is what it looks like in-game now. Keep in mind that there's still only the vector card image in the game and that i haven't implemented ability text rendering yet.

http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/popup_01.jpg

You get this when you click a card. In this screenshot a card in the top panel (i.e. the deck being edited) was clicked. There are some buttons near the popup : arrows to browse cards (you can still click cards directly). A 'deck' button which shows in what decks this card is used (not sure yet if this button will be present in the deck editor), a button to remove one copy from the deck and a button to remove all copies of this card from the deck (only shows if theres more than 1 copy of this card in the deck) and finally an info button that will bring up backstory info and detailed ability info.
If you click anywhere else on screen (so not the popup buttons or not the cards in the deck panel), the popup will close again. The bottom half of the screen has been darkened so that the popup stands out more. If you were to click a card in the stock panel, the top half will be darkened.

I'm not entirely happy with the buttons. The arrows to scroll are fine, but the buttons seem too large. I've made two new sketches : one with smaller buttons and one with minimal buttons that are closer in style to the arrows. The color of the arrows and these buttons depends on the UI color that the player has chosen, the default is Technomancer Cyan.

Smaller buttons : http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/popup_02.jpg
Minimal buttons : http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/popup_03.jpg

In the way i've set up the rendering of the popup and it's buttons, it would actually be relatively simple to add all 3 styles to the game and let players choose what they like best. (It's also possible to change the opacity of the darkened overlay.)

Still, i'd like to hear what people like best of these 3 examples. I can't decided between option 2 and 3 - in option 1 the buttons are simply too large.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby DEEP SPACE » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:15 pm

Wow Grey, you're fast!

I like more the second one.
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Greywing
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Second one out of all 3 or second one out of the bottom two? :p
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FrancoK
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby FrancoK » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:41 am

I like them all.

The SciFi look and feel is very nice, for all the picture.

Between the first two pictures, the second ha the buttons too small, but the first seems to have the buttons too big, while they are as big as the top/line AFAIKS. Maybe the colors give me this impression. either play with the darkening or make them a little smaller than the firt picture.

The third one is that I like most. It is "airy" and almost gives the impression to pop up in a 3D screen. However it look poor when you have to find the area where to click the button(s). I think you can "preactivate" them when the mouse over the clickable area, but this will not work on touch screen.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Bluewing » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:32 am

I like the first one with the big and easy to click buttons. The second one with slightly smaller buttons is ok, while the third one seems a little too small for ease of use.
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Ken Ddoox
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Ken Ddoox » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:51 am

The minimal button seems fit but the background of the button should be a little more recognizable.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:48 am

The visibility of the minimal button seems to depend on the background image - they're more visible in the example screenshot if there are cards under them. If there's nothing under them, you only have the two blue brackets to indicate the edges of the button. This is not acceptable as the background can't be predicted. I'll try some examples where the UI color (perhaps in a darker shade) continues around or under the entire button.

The size of the buttons has to be seen in function of the window screen. The first screenshot appears to have huge buttons, but if you take the same setup and scale it to a 7" inch screen for a tablet, the buttons are not that big - in fact, making them smaller might be a bad idea for 7" inch screens.

So it looks like there's no easy choice :p
I might keep all 3 versions in the game and let players choose what they like best. The minimal button do need a bit more work though to make them stand out better.

For now the plan is still to allow players to choose a smaller popup as well, it can be scaled to 80% of its current size. I need to do more tests once the ability text rendering is to get an idea of how this affects readability. But this poses a problem with popups that need 4 buttons as in the above examples - the buttons don't scale but get placed closer together and it doesn't look very nice.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:13 pm

All 3 button styles are now supported by the game. The minimal style looks the same as in the screenshot above as i haven't found a way to make these stand out more while maintaining their look.

With the popup complete (minus the ability text rendering, which will take a fair bit of work in itself), i'm about to get started on implementing drag and drop operations.
This should work as follows : if the deck is in stacked mode and you drag a card out of it, the entire stack of cards gets removed (ie all copies of the dragged card are gone). If the deck is in unstacked mode, only the dragged card gets removed. Same deal for dragging cards out of the stock : in stacked mode, the max amount that the deck still can support gets added, in unstacked mode only one copy (if possible) gets added.

For PC and Flash i'm also thinking about adding in ctrl+click and ctrl+drag options. If you ctrl+click a card, no popup will show, but the card (one copy or all copies, depending on stack mode as explained above) will be moved. For drag operations, if ctrl is down when you release the mouse, the amount of cards moved will be opposite from the above.

So if you have a deck with stacked mode turn on and that deck has 4 copies of Vector and you do a normal drag, all copies will be removed. If you ctrl+click, same deal. If you ctrl+drag, only one copy gets removed. In unstacked mode, a normal drag on any of the Vectors will only remove one of them. A ctrl+click ditto. Ctrl+drag on any of the Vector copies will remove all Vectors from the deck.

This way both all/single card removal options are available without having to change the stack size. Needs to be implemented and tested first to see how user-friendly this is, but this is the plan :)

EDIT : ctrl+click of cards will always remove/add 1 card, regardless of stackmode - it feels better this way.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby FrancoK » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:19 pm

Sounds good. :)
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Ken Ddoox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:04 pm

I don't know, I don't like the idea of using the ctrl key. It's not very convenient. Most of the game is navigated with the mouse, I barely put a finger on the keyboard. Now I'm going to have to use ctrl? And even though it's a common key to use with Windows when selecting files and doing such actions, having it in a game just feels weird. I say you make one click for one card, stacked or not. If they want to put all the cards in without having to click 4 times, make double click.

Like I said, I don't like using keyboard with games that uses mouse as the main navigator, particularly with card games where there's little use for keyboard actions. It has very little use. So either you're making a whole wide range of keys to be used (like in Gemcraft where you practically have one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse), or you're making it just for the sake of making it, totally optional, like the esc key right now in HDX.

I'm sure you understand what I mean, stacking cards are more for displaying than functioning. You still deal with one card at a time, and if the whole stack then double click.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:46 pm

It's optional, you can still move cards via the popup or via dragging. I don't plan on supporting double-click as it would mean i'd have to implement a seperate system for pc and android and that's what i'm trying to avoid to save time.

There will be more things that can be controlled by the keyboard, but keyboard is always treated as a secondary means of input, so everything will still be available via mouse operations.

I have to choose one or the other as being standard, whichever one ends up making on release will depend on feedback from alpha testers. It's also not unlikely that feedback from alpha causes larger changes if it turns out stuff isn't working well/fast enough.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby joacobanfield » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:01 am

Just keep it as it is or include dragging and multi selection.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:57 am

I agree with Bacon.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:17 am

Drag is already implemented (went faster than expected) works really well on pc and android. The thing is that drag will currently remove all copies of a card if your deck panel is set to stacked mode (which puts all copies of the same card in a stack). In unstacked mode, only one card gets removed if you drag it out of your deck. Then i added 'ctrl', which inverses this behaviour if you keep the 'ctrl' key down during a drag operation.

I could add an option in the settings panel that always forces a drag operation to either remove one card or all copies of a card. In this scenario, ctrl could then do the opposite. I feel that my current implementation makes more sense, but this is going to be one of the things i'll be expecting feedback on during alpha testing. If the majority doesn't like the current system i can implement this new idea (or even something completely else). I'm trying not too waste too much time at this point in development in adding in too many variations and options, best to wait until a larger number of people can play around with it.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby FrancoK » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:28 am

Greywing wrote:Drag is already implemented (went faster than expected) works really well on pc and android. The thing is that drag will currently remove all copies of a card if your deck panel is set to stacked mode (which puts all copies of the same card in a stack). In unstacked mode, only one card gets removed if you drag it out of your deck. Then i added 'ctrl', which inverses this behaviour if you keep the 'ctrl' key down during a drag operation.

I could add an option in the settings panel that always forces a drag operation to either remove one card or all copies of a card. In this scenario, ctrl could then do the opposite. I feel that my current implementation makes more sense, but this is going to be one of the things i'll be expecting feedback on during alpha testing. If the majority doesn't like the current system i can implement this new idea (or even something completely else). I'm trying not too waste too much time at this point in development in adding in too many variations and options, best to wait until a larger number of people can play around with it.

Agree.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:59 pm

When you click the small button with the deck icon, you'll get a panel showing all occurances of the card currently show in the popup in your saved decks. The panel shows the deckname and the number of copies of the card in this deck.

Here's what it looks like in game : http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/card ... _panel.jpg

I might as well allow access to this panel from the deck editor - it doesn't really matter, but it could be useful here as well. This panel can also be accessed from the trader screen, but i don't know yet what that screen will look like.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby dark1n » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:34 pm

info panel is a nice addition, but never mind that now.

i need to state that i hate the new interface. informational panels and clickable buttons have the same frame, same font, same text color.

i'm ok with the frame visually, but from user experience standpoint, this is not good. user should be able, at a glance, to recognize basic interface points (buttons, in this case), not to try out what is clickable, what isn't.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:50 pm

Everything that's indented is a button or has clickable contents. Informational stuff is placed in a label, which is the darker area with the colored brackets. Button texts are written in all-caps (exception so far is the button that contains the deckname, which follows the capitalization the player has put in their decknames).

The difference between info and buttons is mostly in the background (grey vs almost black). Mousing over indents will also create a glow that covers the entire button. I was expecting that this would be enough differentiate between labels and buttons.
Example : the top UI bar in this screenshot : http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/popup_01.jpg
Two buttons + an info label + 3 more buttons. The bottom UI bar is non functional in that screenshot as the darkened overlay that comes with the popup should indicate. Is the dividers between buttons and labels that are demanding too much attention?

I use the same setup for panels - the card occurances panel has nothing but info, thus it receives a large label (http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/card ... _panel.jpg). The rest of the screen is darkened to make the floating button stand out.
Here's a sketch (not an in-game render) of the deckstring panel, which is a bit more complex as it has a mix of in-panel buttons and labels : http://nulll-void.com/games/gps/15/edit ... gpanel.jpg

I could change the buttons to use italics text instead. Another idea is to make the buttons pop out instead of being indented, but i don't like the look of that. I also toyed with the idea of slightly colorized UI fonts, but the colors had to made so light that it wasn't worth the trouble - that's definately something i like to avoid for performance reasons as well.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby dark1n » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:25 pm

i would remove bevel from labels and read-only textboxes. just leave white text on the grey (diagonally etched) background.

editable textboxes are clearly discernible but read-only textboxes and buttons are way too similar.
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Re: [HD 3] Card popup

Postby Greywing » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:53 pm

There is no bevel on labels, unless you refer to the almost black background itself, with the cyan brackets?

What i mean with labels are the almost-black overlays with cyan brackets on the grey background. These are for showing information and are never clickable. The buttons are indented dark grey - these are always clickable.
I prefer to put either label or buttons inside their own containers, both for visibility reasons and to seperate them from the grey background.
The grey background itself comes in different heights - there's the default height for UI bars (seen in the deck editor panel) and for floating buttons (seen under the card popup or under the dialog boxes). Dialog boxes themselves use a stretched version of this background.

Would you say it's a matter of color difference (dark grey vs near-black+cyan) rather than shape (indents vs brackets) that makes it hard to tell the difference between buttons and labels?
The almost-black and the indented dark grey are not that different in brightness i guess. I can make the label even darker, but that might turn them into black holes in the UI, while right now, the UI itself shines through. If i were to make them lighter, it would have to be a lot more brighter than now and more brighter than the indents - then they'd lose the contrast with the bracket color and having a light grey overlay on the UI background isn't going to look nice (then it would be better to just do away with the label and render text straight on the UI background). Or the indents could be made brighter, but then they'd be getting close to the grey of the background again.
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