Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Discuss everything related to HD3
Verden Leafglow
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Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Verden Leafglow » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:47 am

Thought I'd make a thread like so we can give some kind of feedback/insight on what we're experiencing with the new game so far. :)

Here's a few things that have come to me...



PRAISES

1. The game menu outlining is BEAUTIFUL! Is this going to come in a variety of colors as we were able to select in Xyth? I find it a very elegant and inviting scheme.

2. The flagship is a really cool idea. Am really interested to see how this dynamic plays out.


THOUGHT

I've read the wiki on how activations work, so I get what's going on with the ships being launched from the side instead of just materializing. I thought I'd just mention, though, that the way the ships come in looks sort of cheesy...it doesn't feel like it has a good flow. Same with how the ships attack right now. It looks "off" somehow.


COMPLAINTS

1. Having to click a button to deploy, target, and everything else is really just too much. Was much nicer when card info displayed by simply putting the cursor over it. Makes sense to have an "Are you sure?" option for some abilities, I guess...so you don't misclick and blow up your critical building...but for that I'd rather just suggest having an "undo last move" button.

2. The list of cards for the deck is really hard to navigate I find. I'm constantly hunting for cards, and am not quite sure how far clicking the arrows actually takes me in the deck...smaller icons with a scrollbar was definitely much better for this.


SUGGESTIONS

1. One thing occurred to me about the flagship - what if the flagship received a color and cost that was the same as the primary energy type for the deck the player is using? So, if my natural energy is Red, my flagship costs 3 red and counts as a Human ship; if my natural energy is Blue, costs 3 blue and counts as Xyloxi; or 3 random/artifact, whatever. Would make the color blend in nice, could be used more strategically with the deck, and is the picture going to be customizable?

2. Something I've found in general for all computer decks in every HD installment is that the AI decks always seem to have way too many buildings. Firstly the AI clearly has some kind of advantage because I can count on one hand the number of times the AI doesn't have 5 structures deployed by turn 2...and then the AI periodically is sabotaging and replacing buildings throughout the game - usually the wrong ones - and losing mainly because it doesn't have enough ships/non-buildings, all the while having infinitudes of energy. Let's say that I just don't bother with using Trashers and sometimes not even Ultranoughts against the AI...it just doesn't matter, there's too many. :P I suggest cutting the number.



'Tis all for now, thanks. :)

-VL
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Greywing
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Greywing » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:32 am

P1 - There will be an option in the settings screen to change color. You can already change it in-game by clicking any of the energy icons on the menu. You can also manually edit the settings.ini file (see wiki : http://nulll-void.com/games/wiki/doku.p ... l:settings)

P2 - Regarding flagship, i do have some ideas to overhaul the whole thing. I'll post a more detailed article about it in the near future. It's mainly aimed at making it easier to edit it, but it will affect the range of customization options that are currently available.

T1 - I don't see anything wrong myself. This might change once visual effects and sounds are in, as now you're only experiencing part of the whole.

C1 - Right now it's important to me that there are as few differences between the android and desktop versions as possible. The concept of 'mousing over' something doesn't exist in android, so the input scheme is such that it works for both touch and mouse. However (and i've said this several times already), the combat screen will offer keyboard input and drag-and-drop operations. I'm even considering making it so that ctrl+clicking a card automatically activates or targets it, bypassing the popup (ie, ctrl+click a ship in hand to go straight to the targeting mode where you can click an empty slot to play it). I'll post a detailed article about this in the near future, then we can all discuss to see what players want, and what is possible. Mouse over popups are likely not going to happen anytime soon.

C2 - Regarding the deck editor - what arrows are you talking about? The arrows at the side of the screen scroll the entire block of cards, you can change the settings file to adjust how many columns the screen moves when these arrows are clicked. There are filter, sorting and scaling options as well, to show more cards on screen, or to limit the kind of cards you see.
If you refer to the arrows next to the card popup, these aren't really intended to scroll through your entire deck or card set, as these just move one card at a time. This scroll goes from left to right inside a card subtype block, then it goes to the next row of the same subtype, etc, then it switches to the next subtype, etc.
"Smaller icons" what icons are you talking about? There are no icons in the deck editor.

S1 - That's not a bad idea. The race doesn't affect the cost of the ship in any way. I'll look into this, i could make it a 10th race option, that inherits the race of your base basically.
Picture customization is planned to be as follows : every non-legend card that you have picked up from a drop can be used. Long term plan (but this is still a very basic idea that needs work) i will be offering custom portraits, but for a (real money) cost. Whoever orders such a portrait will have a ship image they alone can use, and at the same time, a mercenary card will be made with that player's name and that ship picture (and maybe even a super boss or raid boss).

S2 - The AI mimics my playstyle. Also i like it when people rage and rant about how the AI cheats and magically puts 5 structures in its own opening hand while magically removing all structures from the player's deck :D
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby joacobanfield » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:56 am

S2_ That happened to me 173819392989758587487646575875. Times! Well, at least I know how grey plays (thinks about PVP)
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Greywing
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Greywing » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:14 am

And almost everytime when people tell me the AI cheats because it has more structure than them, i suggest they make it so that the 35% to 40% of the cards in their deck are structures. That's been the amount of structures i used since HD1. It's going to be even more important in HD3 because the deck size is now 40.

This is also one of the reasons why i came up with the suggestion of limiting the number of structure plays per turn to one. So that you can catch up and recover from a really bad hand. But the feedback on that idea had been mostly negative. The game does support limiting ship/structure playcounts, so this will be added in the form of environments most likely.
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Verden Leafglow
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Verden Leafglow » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:03 pm

Oh, I don't care if the AI cheats and starts with 5 structures - my observation is that this is precisely why the AI *LOSES*!

Also, in response to S1 - I might suggest that if colors for the Flagship by race were implemented, that even though players can choose what pic to use, maybe Flagships should have a unique picture in the first place anyways.



As for the rest...you mentioned a couple things I didn't notice. Hang on and I'll get back to you. :P
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:51 pm

Greywing wrote:S2 - The AI mimics my playstyle. Also i like it when people rage and rant about how the AI cheats and magically puts 5 structures in its own opening hand while magically removing all structures from the player's deck :D


This doesn't happen often enough for me to "Rant and rage" about it. Then again, I try to keep up with the AI as much as possible, so I suppose my strategy might overpower your strategy.

Verden Leafglow wrote:1. Having to click a button to deploy, target, and everything else is really just too much. Was much nicer when card info displayed by simply putting the cursor over it. Makes sense to have an "Are you sure?" option for some abilities, I guess...so you don't misclick and blow up your critical building...but for that I'd rather just suggest having an "undo last move" button.


I found that I was able to play several of Greywing's games on my Android phone despite having neither a downloaded app nor a mobile edition. To "mouse over", I would simply put my finger anywhere neutral (IE, anywhere where it doesn't do anything if I put it there), then drag it over the card, treating my finger as a "cursor" that I could remove from the screen and that placing back onto the screen automatically clicked with it.

Here's an idea: For both the android and the PC version, include an option for mousing over.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Greywing » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:20 pm

There were a few people on Kongregate that kept whining about it. They were convinced the AI was cheating. It tought it was funny. I'm not saying my tactic is good - i've lost more games in pvp than i've won. But it worked out well for the AI in HDx and HDs.

I made a quick port of HDx to test on android, and it has the same behaviour as you describe. But the problem is, that to see the popup on android you have to generate a click.

Example of how this worked in HDx on android : tap a card to activate its acti -> it's now activated and its popup shows. Now you want a target, and if you don't know the stats/abils of cards by heart, you'll want to see their popups first. But to get a popup you'll have to tap those cards, which automatically activates the ability that was waiting for a target, so you have your popup, but the acti has already been activated on this card - if you didn't like that card as a target, it's too late to do anything about it.
So the android version really needs a different input handling setup for HDx to work properly. It's playable, though, but messy.

For HD3 i'm making an input setup that works well on android, and i'm making it the default for PC as well. That way i only need to code one system for now. It's not impossible to make a system that functions similar to older HD versions on PC, but for now i'm not going to spend more time on the input code because it works, and because i have other input stuff coming up (drag&drop) that might make things faster for people who don't need popups.
If, even with the drag&drop and hotkeys that are planned, there's still a need for a popup on mouseover, i might consider adding that in. For the foreseeable future, though, that's not happening as there's more important stuff that needs to be done first.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:14 am

Possible idea: Drag and drop. It would work on both PC and Android versions; tap and hold the card and drag it to where you want it to go.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby space-mariner51 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:22 am

I'm on Windows PC: Is there a desktop icon possible, or even a way to open via the start menu? Also, the game maybe unplayable for me as I cannot retract my taskbar, and at least I cannot leave the decks screen.

Edit: Figured it out.
Last edited by space-mariner51 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:26 am

Which version are you using? I'm using windows 8, so I just searched for HD3 on my sidebar, then right clicked it and clicked "Pin to task bar" or something.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Greywing » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:45 am

space-mariner51 : the game doesn't need to be installed, so it goes where ever you downloaded it. So you can just place the game on your desktop.

There's a small problem when game tries to figure out if a certain game window resolution is suitable for your screen. If you have a 1680x1050 screen for instance, a game window size of 1600x1000 is considered valid, but the windows taskbar will overlap the game window.
You'll have to open the settings file, and manually lower the resolution of the game. (Settings file info on the wiki : http://nulll-void.com/games/wiki/doku.p ... l:settings)
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Verden Leafglow
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Verden Leafglow » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:33 pm

There were a few people on Kongregate that kept whining about it. They were convinced the AI was cheating. It tought it was funny. I'm not saying my tactic is good - i've lost more games in pvp than i've won. But it worked out well for the AI in HDx and HDs.


Completely disagree with that last sentence lol but oh well.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby dark1n » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:14 pm

there's been a discussion about engineer abilities in hdx era, but although there was more-or-less a consensus among forum visitors, hdx was declared "done with" and nothing happened.

if my memory serves me, suggestions were among the line of "if i don't pick an energy type in management phase, just generate one unit of primary color". or alternatively last picked color...

micromanaging engineers is boring and doesn't bring any depth to the game.
if this isn't engineer's first active turn, 90% of the time, i'll want the same energy type like last turn.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Greywing » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:53 pm

Yup, i remember. But i don't know yet how to implement it UI-wise.
Mechanic-wise, the only time such an automated acti would trigger, would be at the very start of your turn, but that means you won't be able to turn it off before it triggers, so when you end your turn, the acti has been set in stone already. If it were to trigger at the end of your turn, it'll be useless as you can't use the energy from the ability until next turn anyways.

Implementation depends on how many abilities will need this. For the engineer ability, it could be an extra check box on the acti dialog box 'remember choice'. Problem here is that there needs to be a button to reset this behaviour again. Since the ship has used its acti at the start of the turn, the dialog box can't be brought up anymore.

Another solution which is probably the most simple : give the ship an auto ability that generates 1 energy each turn. Then the acti no longer generates energy itself, but merely changes the type of energy generated.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Bluewing » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:58 pm

I must say that I am really enjoying the custom flagship concept. Right now I have a 7/16 4 :hu: glass cannon with resist 2, retaliate 2, Assemble 2, +3/1 if blocked, repair 3, repair all 3 and 0 cost repair target ship for 5 hp for 399 shiprating. I don't need Akata or Tarogi support and Breakers can't even break through my flagship's resist/repair. :p

One thing does bug me though. The word "environment" is wider than the translucent colored light that surrounds it. It is not a big deal though, but it just looks off.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Lagomorph » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:44 am

Image

lol

goes back to top of deck every time
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby DEEP SPACE » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:31 am

The best is having a flagship with 0/1 with recover (top), a sacrifice acti and one or many badass played abilities.

You really did a good work there, if only MT ships where already in-game, because combining that, Combat Node CIP and Plague Morph's Exit is going to punish every AI forever.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Greywing » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:21 am

Bluewing : the blue glow is fixed for each button size. So there's nothing wrong with it, it's just that the word almost fills up the available size for the button - the solution would be to increase the button, but there's no room for that.

Lagomorph : there's a bug somewhere with recover on flagships, but i haven't found it yet.

Stuff like this is going to be nerfed of course :p
There are some large changes planned for the flagship, which i'll reveal in the near future.
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby DEEP SPACE » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:18 pm

I guess you're going to remove recover passive since flagship is meant to be played once, right? :p
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Re: Thoughts, Praises, Complaints, and Suggestions

Postby Lagomorph » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:05 pm

Shield and restore are also pretty ridiculous for their cost.

I guess that's not saying much since pretty much anything you can put on them will end up pretty broken

And if Shifting Morph or Techno Mimic end up being unchanged you'll have a whole fleet of these things.
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