Show off your overpowered flagships!

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MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:31 pm

Most of the attack comes from the aura. Vectors can be useful just because they can kill themselves. But if they can't kill my flagship in 1 shot, they need to eat though 7hp each turn, +2 more from each ship destroyed.

I think Greywing should lower flagship points to 240+4/lvl. I'd still be able to make some pretty broken flagships, but starting with this @ level 1 is just :o
Also, I think greywing should add a small penalty to AR ships, just so I actually have to give it a race. (Maybe a small bonus for multicolour ships)

Finally, some ablities cost more than the listed value. (If I change to "NONE", I get more points) Why?


EDIT: Here's a 240 point flagship:

4/13 costs 3.
Resist 3.
Returns blocker to a random spot
(Auto) Repairs allies for 2hp
1: Launch a 4/8 delta fighter.

It's still pretty broken, but not AS broken.

EDIT 2: 5/7 assault drone> 4/8 delta fighter
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Greywing
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby Greywing » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:53 pm

Do you know which abilities those are?
It's possible that upon adding an ability, the score of the flagship is such that it picks a new card cost for your ship. And every combination of score and card cost brings with it a penalty or bonus, since fractional card costs aren't possible. So if you have a certain score and the game decides your ideal card cost is 3.1, it will set the cost to 3, but add a small penalty (ie score goes up) since your flagship effectively close less than it should. If you then add an ability that results in a card cost of 3.8, the flagship will now cost 4, but you'll get a small bonus (ie the score goes down).
You can see this at the bottom of the screen, where this cost bonus/penalty is shown as a seperate +/- value. If you have an ability that's worth say 15 points, and you remove it, the first number will lower by 15 points, but the bonus/penalty might change, and thus the final score of your flagship is not guaranteed to be lowered by 15 points (could be more, could be less).

If have a number of things in mind already to balance some of these issues, but it's stuff that'll happen in a few patches from now, as i'm working on other things first.
Some examples :
Abilities that grant +att will scale with the number of attacks or presence of hydra/cerb, possibly also with unblockable.
Abilities that grant +att will also scale with the base attack of the ship. Thus a ship with high base attack will get a small extra score penalty (or none), while a ship with very low attack will see a bigger score penalty.
Abilities that grant +def will do something similar if the ship also has resist or repair abilities, but not as severe as with the +att abilities

Adjusting starting points and points per level is definately also an option.
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MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:05 pm

I was aware how the flagship costs work, it's really the point value/100 rounded up. That isn't a problem. If I have a 301 point flagship, my flagship suddenly costs 4. The game will give me a 15 point bonus tyo compensate for this, but 15 points is not worth 1 cost.

Ability ID 1201(2) costs 14, but really charges 28. (I'm looking at the unmodified cost)

EDIT: Then again, Ability 1201(2) SHOULD cost more like 50.

EDIT 2: Can you ban Hydra+Cerberus? It just does Hydra.

EDIT 3: Multistrike scales with attack, but not hydra or cerberus.
anip
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby anip » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:02 am

if you think your flagship is too powerful

try playing the custom battle and setting the AI to level 100 and above, fun times, annoy at times, but fun times
MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:27 am

Having had looked at roit's flagship, I came up with this ship. (costing 3)

2/9. hydra. multistrike 3.

(Aura) Gains +2/+2 every time a ship is destroyed

(Auto) regens 5

0: Launch a 3/11 crystal core.

I made a deck with cards like crystal core and vector, can't wait for rift spark :P

EDIT: with cards like assault drone and delta fighter, this is winning on turn 4 every time. :D
anip
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby anip » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:26 pm

Here's the non-low stat flagship I was talking about while having the exact same effects.

Image

and the deck used with it
Image

you could also call this the Randomstrike Strikeforce.

Cause it's based on increasing attacks on Randomstrike units.
MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:09 pm

How is that non-low? Even the 2 drop nagato and firewing have 5 attack. Even assault drone!
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby anip » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:29 am

MasN wrote:How is that non-low? Even the 2 drop nagato and firewing have 5 attack. Even assault drone!


referring to the defense... as people in the other thread was talking about how low defense the Flagships are and can easily be killed off by other ships or actions.

Attack doesn't really matter.

As there are actually ships with 0 attacks in deck AND cost more energy. (but none comes with 0 def, lol, that won't work)

Also, you missed Randomstike 3
That basically means I start out with 2 x 3 = 6 attack

I "could" turn it into 3 atk, 17 def if I wanted, that'll give me a start of 9 atk, 17 def instead.



The way you talk about non-low...
It's like you suggest the Flagships to be minimum capped at 5+ atk and 20+ def... while leaving the players with like maybe 50ish Flagship points to customize their ships...

You should really try playing the custom mode with AI at 100~150 Difficulty, you'll notice very fast how important survivability is. (because if the card rewards is similar to HDx, you get better rewards from fighting AI with high Difficulty)
MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:48 am

By non-low, after the strike 3, it is decent, but point is most strong flagships are low BASE attack so you can stack OP abilities like strike 3.
My suggestion was to make attack cost scale linearly, I didn't say anything about minimum attack. The suggestion that said something about it was that if you wanted your picture to be a battleship, you'd have minimum stats, but you can increase the cost for points. (In fact, there could be minimum cost)

As for custom AI, I play it at level 150 so I can actually have a decent fight. The 2/9 is definitely a bit easy too kill, but the 4/14 with resist 3 and repair all 2 is pretty solid, and free nagatos are fun :D
anip
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby anip » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:34 am

MasN wrote:By non-low, after the strike 3, it is decent, but point is most strong flagships are low BASE attack so you can stack OP abilities like strike 3.
My suggestion was to make attack cost scale linearly, I didn't say anything about minimum attack. The suggestion that said something about it was that if you wanted your picture to be a battleship, you'd have minimum stats, but you can increase the cost for points. (In fact, there could be minimum cost)

As for custom AI, I play it at level 150 so I can actually have a decent fight. The 2/9 is definitely a bit easy too kill, but the 4/14 with resist 3 and repair all 2 is pretty solid, and free nagatos are fun :D

where you get the free nagatos? do you mean you use 0 energy to spawn them? or do you mean you get the nagatos to spawn without waiting for it in deck?

Also, I was tying out the ship in actual Race, instead of the "broken" AR like you suggested that it's too OP.


As for the custom AI,
The only one that's affected by the AI Difficulty is
Unpredictable Game Mode > Custom

This means you don't get an actual Deck, so the game play is even harder, and you also only get to place down 1 structure, meaning energy generate even slower.

That's the real Difficulty, lol
You should see the stats and abilities these level 150 ships have... it's crazy.
like ones with 15 atk, 70 def, gain 3 atk, 5 def everytime a ship is destroyed, 0 cost disable acti.... kills me instantly

Any other Game Modes aren't really affected by AI Difficulty.

example:
That's some tough little ship, lol (also, notice the L150 next to it's name)
Image
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dark1n
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby dark1n » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:23 am

no, you can use your own deck against overpowered ai - start a single duel, take your best deck (and randomstrike-recycler flagship if you're a wuss), set ai level to 100, in deck mods give custom cards mod to ai. often more fun then unpredictable.
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space-mariner51
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby space-mariner51 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:38 pm

I'm sending out a challenge for this. All flags on this thread have lousy att/def, but several OP abilities. Maybe the abilities ate too cheap and grey should reduce the cost of adding basic stats. Thus this:

*Make a flag in the game and post it here.
*Flag must have equal or greater attack and defense as a legendary card (using Spectrum legends for comparison)
* Try to match the legends or if possible, do better than them
*Flags must be posted on this thread.

Also try for it to not lose to a good counter from the next turn after the flag's played that lacks ship-destroying abilities. I'll use a dual deck and cards of my choosing (no flags and instant-destroy) that won't be too crazy in the real game. I won't be counting on having ships already to go to counter (so no me spamming Thograms)
Last edited by space-mariner51 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greywing
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby Greywing » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:50 pm

Yup, that's definatly something i'll consider when i look into balancing. But scaling the att/def boosting abilities with the actual base attack and defense of the ship with make it so that ships with low attack and a lot of attack boosting abils will end up being more expensive than ships with a higher base attack.
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space-mariner51
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby space-mariner51 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:02 pm

anip wrote:
MasN wrote:How is that non-low? Even the 2 drop nagato and firewing have 5 attack. Even assault drone!


referring to the defense... as people in the other thread was talking about how low defense the Flagships are and can easily be killed off by other ships or actions.

Attack doesn't really matter.

As there are actually ships with 0 attacks in deck AND cost more energy. (but none comes with 0 def, lol, that won't work)

Also, you missed Randomstike 3
That basically means I start out with 2 x 3 = 6 attack

I "could" turn it into 3 atk, 17 def if I wanted, that'll give me a start of 9 atk, 17 def instead.



The way you talk about non-low...
It's like you suggest the Flagships to be minimum capped at 5+ atk and 20+ def... while leaving the players with like maybe 50ish Flagship points to customize their ships...

You should really try playing the custom mode with AI at 100~150 Difficulty, you'll notice very fast how important survivability is. (because if the card rewards is similar to HDx, you get better rewards from fighting AI with high Difficulty)


In what world would that be possible with only 2 attack and no help? Obviously not when I'm using resist with a GND for good measure. You're better off basing this design on Moru and going off of it's abilities and stats.
anip
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby anip » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:31 pm

Sounds like the Flagships people here wants...

are those with as I said, minimum capped at 5 atk, 20 def (you start out at 175/300), and start with 125 points to customize your ships

Because everyone keeps on talking about how flagships don't have enough base stats...

And I guess we should just remove recycler ability from Flagship, cause it seems like most people here dislike it...


___ ___ ___ ___ ___


Also... that challenge... means you have to start out with 6 atk, 40 def, the lowest legendary base stat...

So that leave you with how many points?

o wait... that goes to 469 score, and 7 energy cost (which also you can't go higher energy cost)

Also, Arcane Legend start out at 20 atk, 50 def, even more impossible...

Image

Or are you referring to elites and battleships instead?


___ ___ ___ ___ ___

dark1n wrote:no, you can use your own deck against overpowered ai - start a single duel, take your best deck (and randomstrike-recycler flagship if you're a wuss), set ai level to 100, in deck mods give custom cards mod to ai. often more fun then unpredictable.

I tried it, but the game crashes as soon as I click play

Edit: found why it crash, if you place Deck Mod, AI custom card as Random
MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:12 pm

Why not make it just cost a flat amount per attack?
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space-mariner51
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby space-mariner51 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:37 am

MasN wrote:Why not make it just cost a flat amount per attack?


That might mean flags stated like shatterer (max attack, 1-3 defense). May not happen anyways if adding attack is worth less than adding a buffing attack passive/acti
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Greywing
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby Greywing » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:00 am

anip wrote:I tried it, but the game crashes as soon as I click play

Edit: found why it crash, if you place Deck Mod, AI custom card as Random


There's indeed a problem there somewhere. I'll look into it and try to fix before next patch is released (which is today or tomorrow).
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MasN
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby MasN » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:37 pm

space-mariner51 wrote:
MasN wrote:Why not make it just cost a flat amount per attack?


That might mean flags stated like shatterer (max attack, 1-3 defense). May not happen anyways if adding attack is worth less than adding a buffing attack passive/acti


Isn't that fine? It would make the flagship REALLY vulnerable to removal. I doubt most people would do that.
anip
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Re: Show off your overpowered flagships!

Postby anip » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:29 pm

You know what, I am gonna try and do an actual "real doable" challenge.

Find the best Flagship possible with starting 5 atk, 20 def. (max 300 flagship score)
However, you can replace attack and def back and forth as long as it stays equal or more amount of base stat. (25 total minimum base stat)
IE: 5 atk, 20 def, OR 10 atk, 15 def, etc etc

Tho we all know Attack cost more score points than Defense... so it might not be that feasible.

And without using recycler ability (cause ppls deem it too OP and wuss play), any other stat increase ability is still good. (IE: on play, auto, etc etc)

Next you have to try and use this Flagship to beat different kinds of Game Mode.
Play each mode at least 5 times (or more), cause you get different starting cards or card orders every time.
(sometimes you might win easy, sometimes you don't get the cards you want)
* Single - Premade Deck
* Single - Generated Deck
* Single - Premade Deck, Opponent level 150, deck mod custom
* Single - Generated Deck, Opponent level 150, deck mod custom
* Unpredictable - Core set
* Unpredictable - Custom, Opponent level 150

For Generated Deck, you can choose whatever you want, same with Opponent (or just keep it random)

Post up a Pic of your Flagship (or post it in text detail if you can't post pics)
Also try to resize the pic down to a good size, so it isn't all huge taking up space on forum.

You can also post up a pic or text detail of the deck you're using (premade) with the Flagship.


My Example:
This goes with my Randomstrike deck
I just use AR as example, too lazy to change race, LOL
But the race is suppose to be XY
Image

And here's the "RandomHydra" deck I edited from the original RandomStrike Deck to go with the example challenge Flagship.

Deck - http://i61.tinypic.com/25k79mc.jpg

___ ___ ___ ___ ___

Edit 2:
New Flagship, Support Type & Deck
Image
Deck k- http://i61.tinypic.com/oiu4go.jpg

___ ___ ___ ___ ___

Edit 4:
New Fleet Flagship & Deck
Image
Image

old Fleet Flagship & Deck
http://i57.tinypic.com/346x8n8.jpg & http://i58.tinypic.com/4ifz0w.jpg

The new Fleet Flagships allows me to generate energy faster to send out stronger CA ships
And even if I don't have any ships to send out, it'll just get stronger with every turn.

This ship can also be adjusted with the "recycler" ability and it'll be even more powerful with a pure CA deck.

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