Card ideas

Talk about anything regarding the Hidden Dimensions core game and HD Spectrum.
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Chyriax
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Re: Card ideas

Postby Chyriax » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:30 am

your understanding me already penney. i wanted to get effects without worrying about counters being too easy, and as a trade for that, i came up with ideas clearly worse than the already existing cards. i did intend for there to be synergy between this and the already existing structures, however, but i also took into account the insane costs required. when hull turret costs twice artillery turret for half the damage and non-targeted, it is going to be very hard to pay for, particularly considering the lack of energy structures entailed in using the support structure. if someone gets up an extra 6 energy to pay for this no problem with several structure slots taken already, then they have practically won already anyway. two turns of this and they could just pay for hiraga, which does 1.5x this damage, and targeted, plus 16 attacks worth per turn, though for the 1 energy every use of the ability, which obviously isn't an issue with this much energy anyway. structure kill also circumvents half of this, and the cheaper/more effective half at that. also in the process of this, there should be anti-cards to this made anyway.
one example:
precision shot
permanant counter card
3-6 energy, somewhere in that range based on the optional effects allowed
deletes one upgrade on target effect. effects like base regen or base dmg would be displayed right above energy, and energy generation upgrades *might* be targetable, with the target being the respective energy locations
this could go along with the change to ancient torp for 2 energy, targets only support structures as a reasonable counter, but splits the countering. the space for energy artifact targeting could serve as the counter to increased artifact energy producers. this could probably also double as a ship upgrade counter, maybe dropping a firewing down to no regen or something if the enemy doesn't use base upgrades. note it only hits one effect, not one card, allowing a degree of choice, but only hits one element of something, making it a choice on what you want deleted. make at least 2 versions of this, just to allow reasonable comparison with torps. i made it comparitively high cost from torp because i want the base upgrades to be high cost compared to structures, thus making it somewhat even, plus i want this to be harder to counter. i prefer the cost stays on the higher end for this counter, since the point is the dificulty of getting at these effects.
combined high cost and the possibility of using this relatively minor counter could make this a reasonable strategy to incorporate, and, like i said, even without the counter card added, i neither expect nor want these to be cheap. i want it to be a hefty investment for something of comparitively small, but infinitely more relliable, effect, after considering that these should be close to twice the cost for half(rounded up preferably) the effect. also consider that your changes to energy drain, which im hoping pass, still leave it in existence. energy drain would make this very hard to use effectively, since the effect is small and only truly usefull over long periods of time.

ps. if someone somehow gets 4x neb spire and 4x engineers out, they either have been through a HUGE amount of turns getting that, by which time its obvious your already not getting through the ships anyway, or they have a 26 (data crystal) card deck built around lifegain, which sounds like decking waiting to happen.
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Chyriax
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PenneyRZ
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Re: Card ideas

Postby PenneyRZ » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:25 am

Energy is certainly a bottleneck for the first few turns of the game.

Indeed one of the first articles I wrote when I was trying to teach people how to play this game shortly after it came out was an article about how many energy cards they should probably be playing in their decks. An amount that would nearly always ensure that they at least got out of the gate before they got ran over.

For anyone that builds their decks according to that (it actually pretty strikingly resembles correct mana ratios for MTG, btw, and the same problem is of utmost concern in that game too) they will likely hit a point sometime before turn 10 in every game where energy becomes worthless and card count is all that matters.

If someone makes a crazy deck with a super low amount of energy generation and a ton of super high energy cost cards (I actually have a blue deck like this for my challenge, it is like 73/74 atm) they will hit this point in the game much later, and potentially after the opponent is already dead, but most of the time decks should probably not be built this way. It isn't a very efficient way to use resources.

However, one thing you will learn playing such a deck is that a gain every turn of only a couple life, say 3, can provide pretty sickening amounts of life gain over the course of an entire game. If you put a Nebula Spire out on turn 1 and the game goes for 30 turns you are looking at 90 life gained from that one card. That is enough by itself to handle an unblocked Nagato for like 18 turns.

When I play said blue deck, I often laugh to myself as 2 Venoms or 2 Vultures can barely dent my life total when I have just 1 Nebula Spire in play.

In MTG, life gain kinda sucks, because games don't tend to last 20 or 30 turns. In this game going long happens a lot more often. Especially when you play other defensive cards that slow down how quickly the opponent can kill you.

In layman's terms, playing 1 Nebula spire lets you live long enough to get the second one out. Playing the second one lets you live long enough to get the 3rd one out and so on.

This would be the same except instead of 4 Nebula Spires you are looking at 8.

In fact, if you are playing a defensive deck and you had the full 8 pack (4 Nebula Spire + the four new healing cards in question) and a whole host of other defensive cards, it would be quite common that you would end up decking your opponent before they could kill you.

The way this game works, defense is a whole lot more powerful than offense, but it also scales up a whole lot more slowly.

The opponent puts out a Nagato that hits for 5 before you even go, then you go and lay out a Nebula Spire and heal yourself for 3 so you are 2 down. Then you get hit for another 5 and are 7 down, then you get healed for 3 and you are 4 down. Eventually you block the Nagato with something and you stop taking 5 and keep gaining 3. Sooner or later you are net positive.

The red player is incentivized to play fast ships to try to kill you before you can implement your defensive plan, but that saddles them with the long game liability that nagatos kinda suck on turn 25.

Anything that the defensive player can do to make it more likely that they hit turn 25, the better off they will be. Lots of recurring life gain goes a long way toward that effort.

The problem isn't going to be a 26 card deck with tons of life gain. The problem is going to be a 40 card deck with still tons of life gain that is capable of decking most people pretty easily.

Nebula Spire may only heal 3 per turn you say, sure, I can accept that. On its own, it isn't going to stop any rushes dead in their tracks. The real problem is when you add in a card like Nanobot Swarm that is capable of stopping 10 damage per turn. Suddenly 3 healing per turn just turned into 13 "healing" per turn with just 2 cards.

If they put out more ships to try to rush you before you can get setup, that just makes cards like Nanobot Swarm much more punishing. If they try to slow roll you so you can't smack them for 6-10 damage reduction with Nanobot Swarm then they can't race your healing. It is a lose lose situation for the attacker.

I am not trying to say there are already enough defensive options in the game or anything, I love me some defense after all, but there will come a certain point where it becomes prohibitively difficult to run offensive decks if too many good defensive tools are created, especially ones that can easily be used by any color.
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Greywing
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Re: Card ideas

Postby Greywing » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:52 am

Cloaking for structures has been possible since HD1, but i've been reluctant to include that, seeing how few ways there are to destroy them.

Hardening would be like resistance for structures then, sounds like an interesting idea.
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Ginger88895
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Re: Card ideas

Postby Ginger88895 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:00 am

Speciallized Fighter
3/15
Only receive 3 point damage. Lower or higher damage to this ship does no effect.

-z0mg VOID ENGINE!
-no, it's cheat engine.
-0mg pwned xD
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nulllmonkey
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Re: Card ideas

Postby nulllmonkey » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:11 pm

Shrink Universe

15 :rv:
Action

Destroy 4 ship and 2 structure slots from both players and things in them.
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http404error
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Re: Card ideas

Postby http404error » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:36 am

Supernova
6 :hu: 6 :cc:
elite damaging action
Destroy all structures. Deal 24 damage to each base.

Alternatively flavored:

Ramming Speed
8 :rv: 4 :rl:

Vortex Collapse
6 :mt: 6 :rd:

I was thinking perhaps it should damage each ship some amount as well.
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Greywing
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Re: Card ideas

Postby Greywing » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:44 am

Remember questionable tactics?
I've been wanting to add a similar card since HD:S, but there's been too many reasons not to do so. Maybe i'll add the ability for the elite challenge builder - then i can use it in one of the campaigns as well should there be a need for an evil card like this :p .
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http404error
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Re: Card ideas

Postby http404error » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:24 pm

It's based on Wildfire, an exciting and splashy card in MtG. Unfortunately, it came out more like Armageddon (which is epicly broken) because of how energy works in this game. Perhaps destroy 3 on each side would be better.

It's intended as a quick finisher for rush aggro, so you can 'lock in' your board advantage. I agree that it's a very sensitive card to balance.
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Ginger88895
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Re: Card ideas

Postby Ginger88895 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:26 pm

Static Capsule
5 :hu:
Opponent base get healed 1hp less every time it get healed when this structure is in play.
0: Disable target ship. Target ship get healed by 5hp.

-z0mg VOID ENGINE!
-no, it's cheat engine.
-0mg pwned xD

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