pirates

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Wv_Hawk_vW
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pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Mon May 28, 2012 1:06 am

here's an idea for, say, pirate vector:

Pirate Vector
1 :hu:
0/10
when launched, this ship gains between 2 and 15 attack and defence.
this ship can attack the same turn it was launched.

this allows for randomness and non-uniformity expected from pirates. Here's another idea, this time for pirate akata:

Pirate Akata
3 :hu: 1 :rl:
6/100
when launched, this ship takes 65 damage
repairs all allied ships for 1 per turn
1 :rl: : repair target ship for 4

one would expect a pirate to be able to utilize everything, and i mean EVERYTHING to fortify his ship, including things that would merely repair most other ships.

Pirate Hiraga
10 :hu: 4 :rl:
15/20
retalliates for 4 when damaged
1 :rl: : damages target ship for 5

a hiraga is NOT easy to capture, considering that it has more firepower than most ships in the human fleet, so it takes a large amount of damage when being stolen. with all this damage, the pirates patch up the holes in the hull using more guns. in balancing, a fresh pirate hiraga has no chance of winning one-on-one combat against a fresh normal hiraga, however it does a much better job at mowing things down.
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Re: pirates

Postby DEEP SPACE » Mon May 28, 2012 2:05 am

Grey says that the campain cards have small diference on stats and image of the card with the original version. Also your suggestions are overpowered.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Mon May 28, 2012 4:58 am

why are they overpowered? pirate vector is somewhat weaker than regular vector, pirate akata takes 65 damage when deployed (meaning that it is really a 6/35 that can have it's defense increased by healing, and the pirate hiraga only has 20 defense, meaning that while it deals a massive amount of damage, its fragile.
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Re: pirates

Postby space-mariner51 » Mon May 28, 2012 7:09 am

Pirate Vector is 2/12 at worse, and 15/25 at best. Also has haste. How can you kill it when it gets going?
Pirate Akata has way too much defense, and one regrowth can easily undo the CIP.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Mon May 28, 2012 1:50 pm

sinse when do pirates have control over mithri'aeil when even the local military cannot even communicate with them?

your probably right about pirate vector. i was just naming off random numbers, 15 is too high lol :P
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Re: pirates

Postby PenneyRZ » Mon May 28, 2012 9:27 pm

Since when are pirates doers of random things?

When was the last time a pirate fixed a hole in their hull by adding a cannon to it?

How is it that the pirate ship designers are capable of designing ships with twice the staying power of the Ultranaught and why would they blow up their own ship for 65 dmg even if they could?

Pretending they were sending the pirate akata out without 2/3 of its armor being put on at the factory, what advantage would this give? Why not just keep it in the factory till it had all its armor on? If it could potentially have such immense staying power, why would they want to send it out to the front lines with only 1/3 its defenses? So it can die before they put on the other 2/3?

Seriously, my suggestions aren't even so ridiculous from a story standpoint and I don't even try.

If you wanted to design a pirate ship that even hinted at real world pirates, it should look more like this:

Pirate Ship
1 Red
1/1
Haste
Activated ability: 3/4 likely destroy this ship, 1/4 likely this ship's stats become equal to the opposing ship and destroy the opposing ship.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Mon May 28, 2012 11:24 pm

the pirates are not merely doers of random thigns. they are inconsistant. one pirate is more skilled at improving his ship than the other, so one pirate vector is better than the other. besides, one pirate might be more interested in guns than in structural integrity while another wants to put 60 feet of armor plating around the cockpit, so obviously, one ship will have high attack while the other has high defense.

they didn't damage the akata for 65 damage, the 65 damage is simply representative of the fact that they will go to extreme measures to fortify the ship. using that metal alloy to repair that hole in the armor? why not also, after fixing those bullet holes, spray it all over the outside and thicken the armor?

seriously, real world pirates don't go into space, so I'm basing these off of what i would do if i were a SPACE pirate. if i were an oceanic pirate, that would be different. i wouldn't be as worried about a single hole in my armor sucking me out into a vacuum and (very unpleasantly) causing me to suffocate, all because i didn't get that one thing precisely correct.
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Re: pirates

Postby DEEP SPACE » Tue May 29, 2012 2:20 am

My idea of pirate versions:

Pirate Vector
1 :hu:
5/10
Haste
Deals 2 damage to opposing base each turn.

Pirate Nagato
2 :hu:
6/15
Haste
All damages recieved are lowered by 1.

Pirate Akata
3 :hu:
6/25
Repairs all allied ships for up to 2HP when launched.
1 :hu: : Repairs one target ship for up to 5HP.

Pirate Breaker Class
6 :hu: /2 :rl:
10/22
Deals 5 damage to the opposing ship when launched.
Retaliates for 3 damage when launched.

Pirate Hiraga
9 :hu: /2 :rl:
14/30
Retaliates for 5 damage when attacked
1 :hu: : Deals 4 damage to one target ship

Pirate Firewing
3 :hu:
7/18
Deals 3 damage to opposing ship and its neighbours when launched
Regenerates for up to 2HP each turn
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Re: pirates

Postby Japheth » Tue May 29, 2012 4:23 am

DEEP SPACE: I think your pirate ideas are (No offense hawk, penney) the best here. And not just because their the latest. Also hawk; Even with its 65 damage ability, I am positive a ship like that would
never become a card.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Tue May 29, 2012 4:32 am

well, i was simply throwing out an idea. in fact, all i was doing was throwing out ideas-- the randomness of the vectors, the extra high attack extra low defense hiraga, the ultra-high defense akata that takes damage as a counteraction, etc., all of them are ideas.

so for all i care, the fact that it was considered means that i completed that goal.

here's another idea:

Pirate firewing
4 :hu:
9/20
this ship attacks the opposing three ships each turn
each turn, this ship's attack is divided by three and rounded up.
haste
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Re: pirates

Postby PenneyRZ » Tue May 29, 2012 4:42 am

Pirates on earth want to capture a ship and either ride away with the ship and sell that OR ride away with the ship's cargo and sell that OR try to capture the crew and sell those.

Pirates in space would try to do the same thing.

What they would not do is to load up their tiny ships (all they can afford) with tons of armor and guns and make it 10x slower, 10x less maneuverable, and 10x more easily spotted by the enemy since all of that makes it harder to do their job of capturing the enemy ship. Real space pirates would want to get close enough to dock, and then abandon their ship and try to gain control of their target ship.

Real pirates never want to go against heavily armed targets. They go after the unarmed cargo ships that are well away from anyone/anything that could possibly protect them.

If it needs to happen that the AI has some better cards that are straight upgrades over current red cards to give the player a challenge or whatever, just give each ship +4/+4 and call it a day.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Tue May 29, 2012 5:00 am

here's the one reason you would want to steal an entire hiraga, despite how heavily guarded it will be and despite all the infinite risks behind trying to go after such a powerful battleship:

people will bow down to your almighty power and practically hand their life savings to you.

if there is such a powerful ship that the military would practically give its life to protect, then either it will raise a massive price on the market, or it will allow you to capture so much cargo that you could buy 10 more of it. pirates in real life don't get the opportunity to go after such highly powerful targets; however, given the opportunity, they probably would capture a cruiser, maybe even a battleship, and either rig it for sale, or rig it for use, most likely use as it would allow them to steal everything until stopped, and what comes to stop them will be pretty difficult to produce.

real pirates never want to go against heavily armed targets unless they are absolutely sure they can capture them, because if they can, you can just imagine the loot they will get.

lets say you have either the choice of taking a 10% risk repeatedly, and that 10% risk gets you $500 each time it succeeds, but you lose everything when it fail; your other choice is to take a 99.9r% risk, and the reward is that the risk for the first choice is elliminated. which do you pick? initially, you pick the first choice; after a long string of successes, you eventually gain enough money to start buying things to reduce the risk of the second choice, and increase the reward of the first choice. for example, AK-47s and heavy artillery, not to mention knowledge of the shifts of your target. eventually, this reduces the risk to 50%. now are you willing to go for the greater risk?

in essence, this is exactly what pirates must go through. they have the choice of either capturing freighters or getting a stronger ship with bigger guns and that can strike more fear into more ships, force them into submission with less effort, and steal more from them with less resistance.

now do you see why pirates in space would want to go for an almighty hiraga when they could just go after measley freighters and cargoships?

edit: also of note, +4/+4 is not interesting enough. it shows how little effort the creator put into balancing the game, even if the effort did not come from himself. if it did, he's trying and deserves something for his effort, if not, other players must like it enough to balance it, so obviously, there must be something to this game that a new player would find interesting. +4/+4 is not as interesting as a randomized -2/+6 or +8/-1 or +6/+6 here and there. but that's neither here nor there; this isn't a thread for discussing balancing, this is a thread for discussing how to make pirate ships piratelike.
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Re: pirates

Postby space-mariner51 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:22 am

My ideas:

Pirate Vector:
1 :hu:
7/10
Haste

Pirate Tarogi:
2 :hu:
4/15
Increases attack of all ally ships by 2 on launch

Pirate Akata:
4 :hu:
2/50
5 Resist
2 :hu: : Target opposing ship will attack this ship instead of intended target

Pirate Bomber:
2 :ca: 1 :hu:
9/9

Pirate Cargoship:
1 :hu: 1 :rv:
5/18
1 :hu: : Increases this ship's attack and defense by 1
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Tue May 29, 2012 1:58 pm

good ideas, but too consistant. idea:

Pirate vector
1 :hu:
5/10
20% chance to self destruct and destroy the opposing ship, 30% chance to gain that ship's stats (add to this ship's stats) and destroy that ship, 50% chance nothing happens.

either the pirate steals the cargo, the pirate dies and takes the opposing ship, or the pirate chickens out. clarification for the second abilit: if a 5/10 vector steals a fresh hiraga, pirate vector now has 17 attack, 46 defense, but doesn't have the artillery or retalliate.

Pirate Tarogi
X :hu:
2/15
increases attack of all ally ships by 1 to 3 on launch, X=how much pirate tarogi increases the attack by.

basically, the pirates will capture the tarogi, use it's fleetspreader for an interesting effect, wear it out (more quickly if its damaged), and discard it. they use more resources on the fleetspreader the more it works, because in their eyes, it's worth it.

Pirate Cargoship
1 :hu: 1 :rv:
5/18
X :hu: : increases this ship's attack and defense by 1 to 3, X=how much they increased divided by two and rounded down
increases a random ship's stats by 1/1 each turn

basically, the pirates open up a box of cargo and attach it's cargo to the hull. either it contains weapons or it contains something to put between the enemy's bullets and the air inside.
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Japheth
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Re: pirates

Postby Japheth » Tue May 29, 2012 4:15 pm

Uh guys I think your all forgetting that these cards aren't balanced for gameplay, If we made the pirate cards to match real life their not going to work in the game. I mean really; pirate vector 7, 5 attack? I know both only have ten defense but with haste and with 1 energy cost all races could use it.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Tue May 29, 2012 8:31 pm

your right. should we make it cost 2 like nagato which already costs that much or reduce the attack to a crappy 2 like vector has?
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Re: pirates

Postby DEEP SPACE » Tue May 29, 2012 11:18 pm

::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Stop Piratery
5 :hu:
Destroy all pirate ships on combat.

::) ::) ::) ::) ::)


At the End, Grey will make all the pirate ships and you see that they are none you have suggested. :p
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Re: pirates

Postby Japheth » Wed May 30, 2012 1:14 am

I know it will never make it into the game but stop piratery would be: Stop piracy.
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Re: pirates

Postby DEEP SPACE » Wed May 30, 2012 4:53 pm

Today this is the unique active topic that is still function daily (Note that there other active topics that have new post periodicaly). Of course i probably guess that after the realease of HD:X Alpha, a lot of new topics would be created.
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Re: pirates

Postby Wv_Hawk_vW » Wed May 30, 2012 6:27 pm

indeed.

maybe we should include stop piracy (and it also destroys all pirate cards in the deck), and all pirate cards are overpowered?
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