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Card Requests 
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Post Re: Card Requests
:hu: Good idea but i think that don't fit with the code.
:ca: Overpowered
:xy: Overpowered, is more powerfull than Chyriax
:cc: It should cost 6, instead of 4.
:rv: Same thing that :hu:
:mt: I like this one
:tm: Z(x)= 3X^3 + 5X^2 - 2X + 10.
:rd: I have mind this one time, the unique diference is the cost

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Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:27 pm
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Post Re: Card Requests
Wv_Hawk_vW wrote:
First off, let me get this out: penney, why dont you just stop designing such crappy, low-power cards and be done with it? sinse you seem to want me to stop doing what I like to do, you should do the same.

Second, based off of penney's latest statement, I propose a high power flavor card go to each race.


It is going to be hard to make the case that I design crappy low powered cards given that I had a hand in setting the statistics of like 80% of the cards in the whole game.

The ones I didn't are, for the most part, the ones with the absolute lowest power level and usage %s.

Battery and Fusion Capacitor were my designs. Last I heard those were generally considered to be up there in power level rather than down there. Lost Mine is also completely one of mine and pretty far up there.

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Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:16 pm
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Post Re: Card Requests
PenneyRZ wrote:
Wv_Hawk_vW - You could just quit trying to make overpowered cards too. That would also work.


Wv_Hawk_vW wrote:
First off, let me get this out: penney, why dont you just stop designing such crappy, low-power cards and be done with it? sinse you seem to want me to stop doing what I like to do, you should do the same.


compared to your cards, mine are equally balanced. you can always lost mine a clergy mage; gauntlet class is made useless by a scanner ghost; and don't you think that my cards would be used as much as, if not more than, yours? the whole reason any deck loses is because it doesn't get enough bang for its buck, which is why the caes'cix are so much better than most races (except the MT, which require a bit of luck anyway, and TM), so all I am proposing is making all ships have higher quality for their price. this should make ship-to-ship combat 10x more likely and your ships won't get completely busted by actions like space warp.

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:23 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
@hawk: i would not say that penney designs crappy low power cards by any means. for the most part, they are balanced. if they are unbalanced, its usually erring on the side of underpowered since its better to design something that never gets used and isn't game changing than something that goes into every deck of that color and is simply OP. yours tend to err on the OP side and would really mess with things. lost mine became a necessity as a counter card, i don't want cards that need us to make another version of lost mine just so we can have enough of them. your cards would certainly get used. they make a complete edge over someone that isn't using them. we don't want cards that are required just by strength. its like cutting hiraga's cost in half. anyone wanting to play HU would be required to use it, or they would fall behind. we want cards that are good for most decks, but are not required if you want to use that race.

as for the card suggestions:
gauntlet: already discussed
armored bomber: isn't thogrom bad enough. even the AI gives me problems when it comes out with 2x thogrom and a screen by turn 2. when i must resort to tricks to get rid of these(for example, it will sacrifice a thogrom to "save" a screen from a spark) there is enough present already.
clergy mage: so, chyriax costs 3 to give everything 1 life, this costs -1/-1, which is effectively 2 energy on a neb spire, to give 4 heal. add to that, this can be up to 4x on the field at once, and synergizes ridiculously well with chyriax anyway. thats the reason i say that greater neb demon is somewhat stronger than chyriax, it doesn't have the 1x on the field at a time limit.
logistics drone: *not* in color. growing ships are solely within the provinces of RV and MT. the ability is also entirely too strong anyway, given that it is only 1 energy for another attack thrown out, probably on a berserker or cerberus drone. it would become a must in tandem with overseer based decks, growing berserkers or cerberus drones way out of everything elses ability to beat, plus growing excessively on its own.
shield cruiser: entirely too complicated. end of story there. sounds nice, but if we want this, i would rather it HU, where targeted heals would work better with it. RV heals are en-masse, making the effect not as big. i still say its OP though, since RV has entirely more heal than it needs and just treating this ship as disposable after enough dmg makes it worse.
defence node: not in color. MT gains attack, not defence. not that this isn't a decent card, but i can't see it having any real use, particularly for MT.
force screen: short lived, OP. i can think of little more excuse for a TM/MT deck, since TM already has echo image as the perfect abomnom sacrifice, plus potentially the highest attack spawns to boot. this would just mean that the abomnom could eat a 48/2 force screen that has mostly destroyed the enemy already. lets not even further discuss this one please.
lesser rift demon: this is a card worth making. make it 4 attack and cost 2, just so it isn't on par for attack strength with normal demons.

in the main, these are OP. all would certainly make the top of usage %, but the bottom of fun%. everyone would hate them as being OP, but use them to compete.

@penney: you admit that chyriax has much more beatdown potential than even greater neb demon, which is strictly stronger than the card i proposed, yet condemned that same card as having better abilities. i also point out that chyriax has 3 regen, which counts for a lot in a ship this size, given the number of turns it would take to kill and the damage output, which kills ships that could damage it. i would say that i still consider greater neb demon slightly superior, simply by the number allowed on the field. if there could be 3x chyriax on the field, plus the energy to pay for it, then this would be more than enough lifegain for any other ship, particularly the ones i mentioned earlier(amethyst XY and relic fighter)

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:35 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
Penney, why do you think Chyriax's buff all+1 is better than heal all 3? I don't see your reason, but either you gain 3 defense, or 1 defense.


Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:39 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
i do understand penney's point here. i would say buff 1 is about the same as heal 3, probably somewhat weaker. i give the buff this much of a better shot per point than the heal because i tend to make rather strong use of the difference between buff and heal, as just by combining them both are made much stronger. i only say the buff is worse only because you can only have one of it, where the heal gets to be placed in multiple, and the buff has a relatively high cost attached. im going for the fact that chyriax also has regen attached to help keep them roughly even in direct comparison as well, not counting the number you can play at a time.

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:50 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
Why is it that we are so focused on creating new ship disigns? How about we instead create new structure and action disigns because my guess ships make up 65% of all cards.

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:31 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
I don't necessarily mean that the heal ability from Chryiax is more powerful than the heal ability from the Greater Nebula.

What I mean to say is that since the Chryiax has +4 damage the only way to make up for that and keep relative power level is for the Greater Nebula to heal for a whole lot more than the Chryiax does.

The Chryiax mitigates for 10 and the Greater Nebula potentially for 21. With both abilities maximized, the Greater is just over 2x as much mitigation as the Chryiax.

The Chryiax, however, doesn't have 2x the attack power of 1 Greater Nebula, only 50% more.

So, going back to my argument before, if this new red ship is to have 50% more beatdown than Akata, it would make sense for it to heal half as much. That being exactly what I suggested like a dozen posts ago as a reasonable tradeoff.

Also, I guess Greater Nebula has an advantage that you can fit more than one on the field, but with 4x Chain Reaction per stack that is not any real advantage.

In straight up 1 vs 1, the Chryiax crushes it. The Chryiax would be healed for 4 per turn and thus lose 4 per turn while the Greater Nebula would be healed for 3 per turn and thus lose 9 per turn.

So, yes, if the gold player got some really good draw and plenty of time to setup and the opponent forgot to draw cards to kill them with, the Greater Nebula could potentially be the better card to have in the stack.

That is a whole lot of unlikely maybes, though.

I think in practice the Chryiax should be the more powerful card most of the time since it is just plain better at doing the #1 most powerful thing in the game... killing enemy ships.

- Edit -
BTW, I did kinda gloss over "mitigation quality". Yes, the Chryiax does have the plus that it can break the defense cap, IE its heal is never made less effective by your ship already being full life. That has some utility above and beyond a straight heal. In conjunction with that, the Greater Nebula won't always be healing the whole team for 3 every turn since it can't heal past the cap. Both these things serve to narrow the healing gap to some measurable extent. I mostly really wasn't focusing on this aspect, though, instead just counting everything as 1 for 1. If anything this just serves to put the Chryiax that much farther ahead.

Additionally, you can't just say it is either 1x Chryiax in play and 1x in hand vs 2x Greater Nebulas in play. I think most people probably wouldn't play 4x Chryiax in the stack, more like 2x Chryiax and 2x Terror Mage or something like that. Only 33% of the time would the second one drawn be the second Chryiax assuming the first one was a Chryiax. It is more likely the player would have 1 of each and still be able to play their cards.

Thus it probably wouldn't be reflective of reality to just say that Greater Nebula has the advantage because it stacks better.
- End Edit -

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Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:00 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
Ideas for abilities:

-Reset target ship's attack/defense back to base; doesn't repair any damage
-0: Target ship gains X attack, X= this ship's current attack. This ship's attack is now 0
-Target ship's attack is reduces to 0


Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:59 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
@mariner: i don't think i agree with those abilities

reset: too much effort gets put into buffs/negs for this. in the case of XY, this would be both the death of thunder shard/terror mage and the ruin of crystal core, chyriax, neb spire, and saphire XY, but it would also become quite OP if used by the player, dropping a saphire, emerald, or ruby down to nothing and then bringing it back. MT and RV would scream when the self-buffing ships or action buffs were reset, and a HU player would jump through the screen when that ship they just used 2-3x chainguns on was reset. CA would lose the defence bonuses, and any CC player would hate the wasted use of an overseer. TM would find plenty of wasted draws from data node, waste the technosavant's ability, and render the technomancer's attack drop almost useless. dimensional link is rendered harmless, etc. no, this just causes too much frustration from removing more work from something than it should be able to remove. bad enough that buffs are worthless with instakills, lets not make them worth even less.
attack moving: abomination, but leaving a blocker and not adding defence. nice. don't we have enough complaints about abomination?
attack reduce to 0: so.....make a dreadnaught into an overpriced wall? no thanks

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Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:05 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
This idea for the ability to reset a ship's power is a good one as long as it can only be used on your own ships and it would need to cost energy, maybe just 3. I think that a way to stop a ship from becoming an overpriced piece of space deebree is a good one.

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Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:34 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
the problem is that it offsets the work your enemy took to make it an overpriced piece of space debris for almost nothing. it takes a venom how long to make its little hole to survive? and say its owner felt safe with it in front of a downscaled taryn'ixia in a HU/CC deck. it took 10 energy to bring the taryn down, plus just as many turns. probably took another 20 energy in disables during this time. thats 30 energy for this. now, the owner of the taryn takes this card at 3 energy resets the taryn, which isn't disabled, uses another 2 energy on chainguns, for 5 energy total, ruining the worth of that last 30 energy and destroying the venom all at once. a terror mage gets rid of 2 attack per use, which is about 2 energy's worth on a neb spire at that. technomancer is 2 energy per use at 2 attack down. thunder shard is free, but takes a structure slot, so could be said to take 1 energy per use in leu of that structure that could fill the location. the only reliable attack downs that aren't 1 energy per attack are in RV, where its nanobot leeches and nanobot swarm. those are 1 shots, not repeatable. and even then, they might take 12 attack off if one is lucky, and spread out over an area, where it isn't too game changing right away. this is probably going to be saved for ships with at least 10 attack, and for when they are really down low. you want a reasonable counter card to attack downs, make it cost 1 energy per 2 attack to fix. thats half of what it cost the other side to do there, and costs you a card to do it as well. you want 12 attack back, be willing to pay at least 6 energy for it. and disable the ship getting fixed too, just so this doesn't make a surprise attack.

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Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:51 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
Chryiax has the right idea again, except he did miss some of the most important arguments.

Buffing up one's ships takes a significant investment that is already made worthless by things like Lost Mine anyway.

If decks that either buffed or debuffed ships were dominant, there might be a need for a counter card, but right now this new card that reset ship stats would be pretty much worthless in the metagame.

The abomination is scary because it can gain 60 attack in one turn. Channeler resets its own attack every turn back to the super high value anyway. Last I heard Venom and Thunder Shard weren't tearing up the PVP scene.

It sounds to me like a card that would totally hose blue PVE decks without doing pretty much anything beneficial for pretty much anybody in any respect.

BTW, it there is really no need to make a card where the only application for the whole card is for the AI to use it against the player's PVE deck. The AI doesn't need to have a good win rate. It doesn't care if it loses 100 times in a row.

I am the first one to say there should be a counter card for everything, but from where I sit Lost Mine already does everything this new reset card does and in a better way.

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Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:16 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
Chyriax wrote:
@mariner: i don't think i agree with those abilities

reset: too much effort gets put into buffs/negs for this. in the case of XY, this would be both the death of thunder shard/terror mage and the ruin of crystal core, chyriax, neb spire, and saphire XY, but it would also become quite OP if used by the player, dropping a saphire, emerald, or ruby down to nothing and then bringing it back. MT and RV would scream when the self-buffing ships or action buffs were reset, and a HU player would jump through the screen when that ship they just used 2-3x chainguns on was reset. CA would lose the defence bonuses, and any CC player would hate the wasted use of an overseer. TM would find plenty of wasted draws from data node, waste the technosavant's ability, and render the technomancer's attack drop almost useless. dimensional link is rendered harmless, etc. no, this just causes too much frustration from removing more work from something than it should be able to remove. bad enough that buffs are worthless with instakills, lets not make them worth even less.
attack moving: abomination, but leaving a blocker and not adding defence. nice. don't we have enough complaints about abomination?
attack reduce to 0: so.....make a dreadnaught into an overpriced wall? no thanks


Your arguments apply to Lost Mine too, and reset can be used either to undo buffs on an enemy ship, or reverse debuffs (Weaken, Techno Scan,etc) on your own ship. It's just as effective as Lost mine, and if you're facing defeat, the effort put into a very buffed ship is irrelevant if you can advert defeat.
Would you rather face a Dreadnought with buffed attack, or a Dreadnought that cannot attack at all? Make a ship a wall, then ignore it. The tactic of dealing with mirror shields. More helpful if your enemy can really buff a ship repeatedly, ie multiple Nebula Spires.


Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:18 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
PenneyRZ wrote:
Chryiax has the right idea again, except he did miss some of the most important arguments.

Buffing up one's ships takes a significant investment that is already made worthless by things like Lost Mine anyway.

If decks that either buffed or debuffed ships were dominant, there might be a need for a counter card, but right now this new card that reset ship stats would be pretty much worthless in the metagame.

The abomination is scary because it can gain 60 attack in one turn. Channeler resets its own attack every turn back to the super high value anyway. Last I heard Venom and Thunder Shard weren't tearing up the PVP scene.

It sounds to me like a card that would totally hose blue PVE decks without doing pretty much anything beneficial for pretty much anybody in any respect.

BTW, it there is really no need to make a card where the only application for the whole card is for the AI to use it against the player's PVE deck. The AI doesn't need to have a good win rate. It doesn't care if it loses 100 times in a row.

I am the first one to say there should be a counter card for everything, but from where I sit Lost Mine already does everything this new reset card does and in a better way.


Still. blue decks can reset the reset without reset (tongue twister; hope you got that). It's not as big as problem as you make it to be. Also, you say it's wrong to quickly undo 30 energy of investment, Is it wrong to not have a way to defeat a 25 attack ship, when it can destroy every ship in 2 turns? Is it also wrong to do the same yourself?


Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:23 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
currently, lost mine fills all these functions enough as it is. believe it or not, instakills do work on both sides of the board. i have on occasion used one on my own ships to clear space, particularly lately with a brown deck im attempting. the premise: nanobot towers/carriers supporting battlecruisers/nano leeches. it works quite well, right up until its in pvp against an enemy with a technowall in front of a nano carrier and a nice virus barrier to keep it alive. said person mentioned more in hand, so instead of using ambush on said wall, i ambushed my own carrier and replaced it with nano leeches. worthless ships on your side can be paved in this manner.

as for dealing with the 25 attack ship: how did said person get this? the deck i just described gets slammed by a single chain reaction, so i don't see how it would work. playing XY(best chance to buff this high), thats at least 20 energy and 10 turns just buffing an ultranaught to this level. more than enough to make it worth a single lost mine for 8 energy. anything other than the ultranaught would take even more to get this high. in CC, this is 5 turns from an overseer, doing exactly the same damage the overseer would have in this time, and would be better served on smaller, faster ships. why buff something that took this much effort to get out when one can buff a berserker much easier. i feel if your that worried about someone getting this big a ship out, pack instakills. it might be fun when they spend 20-30 energy on something like this easily just to have it all die to a 1 energy spark or ambush. yours is a specific situation counter card, and punishes anyone who tries to use one strategy. instakills punish anyone and everyone, but do it in such a way as to be understandable. nobody wants the enemy getting a legend or a big battleship, so they lost mine it. turnabout is fair play here too, even for decks that aren't using big ships. that drone carrier in a CC rush deck is a good lost mine target for example. even a little 15 life ship like a thogrom can be enough to merit a lost mine sometimes. what does your card do except punish people wanting to use venoms and thunder shards. as if those aren't getting it enough, since torps are very prevalant right now, and that takes thunder shard down a few notches. venoms have a hard time with shipyards/carriers being able to send ships that die before the attack down works on them, plus they can't heal with akata or tarogi. the only attack down ship of any real note currently is terror mage, which often merits an immediate lost mine, much to the chagrin of whoever had the mage, given the cost of playing one.

energy aside, its also time wasted. dropping a taryn to 0 attack isn't done in a single turn, but aparently restoring it should be? thats the equivelant of nuking an entire city, occupying it and cleaning the fallout, then having the entire population somehow teleport in, armed, and start shooting at you, despite the fact that you *saw* the corpses from radiation poisoning. they all just got up like zombies. thats what you proposed, make this dead taryn into a zombie taryn just as strong as before, all in an instant.

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Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:08 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
Well, i used blue because you used blue. Also, other races can buff ships fast too, even faster than blue.
Assuming I got a Hiraga, and you have a Thunder Shard. The Hiraga is clear to attack your base the whole time. You didn't buff and repair your base at all.

Damage to your base

75-12=63HP left
63-11=52 left
52-10=42 left
42-9=33 left
33-8=25 left
25-7=18 left
18-6=11 left
11-5=6 left
6-4=2 left
2-3= you lost

If you done it -1 at a time, you lose. I could've buffed its attack at any time to counter you Thunder Shard. Plus, I could've deployed more ships to attack you. They're should be a way to instantly render a ship worthless for offense. Plus, how do I buff a ship's attack by 12, especially when you can keep using your Thunder Shard.


Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:03 am
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Post Re: Card Requests
there already are ways to render ships usless for offence. they are: blockers. and: instakills. in this scenario here, one crystal tree would stop the problem without fail. as for how you buff a ships attack by 12, the easier option in HU is to torp the shard before it gets that bad. i will say, you pointed out how slowly a ship gets dropped in attack, which begs the question: how would this scene play out with the card you asked for to reset a ship? that hiraga gets down to 6 attack, i bet it would get reset somewhere around there, finishing it off much faster. it takes this much work to debuff your hiraga, and this much time. why should you be able to fix it with 3 energy and 1 turn?

ps. you forgot the lifegain from thunder shard. it makes 1 more turn lol.

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Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Card Requests
that was a tiresome discussion about mariner's ideas #1 and #3. i don't want to see them on cards either so lets turn to the idea #2 which may not be so bad... for example:

Crystal Ghost
cost: 2 :rd: 2 :xy:
A:4 D:18
passive: regenerates for 2hp each turn
active (0 cost): target ship gains X attack, where X is half of this ship's current attack. this ship's attack is reduced to 0.

nice little blocker which can add 2 attack to a grav demon before dying.
maybe it could also add a few hp to base when deployed. not sure...


Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Card Requests
The general idea is good. I've been looking at adding abilities to smaller ships. These are not used often, and when they are used and stay on the board they often take up room for larger ships. So there should be a few ways to either make those small ships more usefull if they stay on the board so long or remove/sacrifice them.

Chances are all 1-energy fighters will be updated with such an ability. Example :
* sacrifice this ship to have it deal x damage to target ship
* sacrifice this ship to increase the attack and/or defense of target ship
* sacrifice this ship to draw a card, return a card from scrap to deck, repair your base, etc, etc
* 4 energy : this ship gets +1/+1 (energy sink basically), etc

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