INTERVIEW WITH STIJN VAN CAUTER FOR ABANDON ALL HOPE ZINE
Hello Stijn, how are you?
Hi, John, somewhat numb and tired over here, but thanks to lucky planning of classes at school I have 3 weeks of vacation coming up…lots of time to work on my music and take a break as well…
If I remember right, Until Death Overtakes Me initially came together in 1999 as a full group, but with time became a one-man band. Were you too hard to work with, or was the music simply too extreme for the others?
Actually it started as a solo-project, and after about one year I managed to get some people interested in UDOM. But they all left, possibly because they didn't like the style of the music...and yes, that might have also something to do with what I expected from them
What is the meaning behind the name Until Death Overtakes Me?
I may be somewhat obsessed with certain forms of music, the title shows this by saying that I will do this till the very end, that I will write music for as long as I can. To me, death, is the absolute end, no romantic tales about heaven or reincarnation, just emptiness, nothingness. Everything ends with death and until his end I will do this one thing that gives a little meaning to it all : UDOM…
UDOM's music is almost entirely bleak, negative and depressing. What influenced/influences you to play this music - either musical or non-musical influences?
I don't think there are any musical influences, maybe in the very beginning, when UDOM was still a mix between black and doom, but when the music evolved, all influences dissapeard. For non-musical influences, my own personal life : my dreams, experiences, all pain, desolation, depression, nihilism, emptiness. Since I founded UDOM, it has been a very personal project, where I could put my misery into music, and get rid of some of these rather negative feelings or situations.
While they both contain the trademark UDOM sound and atmosphere, 'Symphony I - Deep Dark Red' is more 'metal' with heavier guitar compared to 'Symphony II - Absence of Life', which seems more 'ambient' with less heavy guitars. What was the reason for this development? Do you think the guitar/metal aspect of UDOM's music will decrease more in future?
Actually the guitars on 'Absence Of Life' are heavier, the contain much more bass than those on 'Deep Dark Red', but that's just a detail. There's no specific reason for this change, the music just evolved because it fitted the concept of the tracks. I am a big fan of guitars, and my music contains much more guitar than one would expect. To most people, guitars can only be distorted, but I have used guitar in an experimental way, sometimes it sounds like a keyboard or synth or even a violin. From that point of view there's a lot of guitar in my music and that will never change.
The 'metal' aspect is something else…I don't consider my music as a part of the 'metal genre', I used to do that, but not any more, but I can understand why my music is quite often considered as metal or doom-metal and these elements will remain, maybe not so upfront or not that pronounced at all times, but they will be there. I have been told that my new tracks are the most 'metal' of all my UDOM tracks, but from my point of view, I don't see the 'metal' aspect in my music…
How have reactions been to the first two UDOM releases? I imagine quite a lot of people simply didn't understand them…?
That's indeed true, I don't see why it's so hard to understand, but I guess it has something to do with the way the music scene is evolving, these days, the only music you hear on radio or tv, are those short, empty and meaningless commercial track…easy listening crap in my opinion. Music with somekind of a 'depth', with some kind of meaning, music that is 'different' just gets ignored by the masses. But there are still people who only want this 'different' and more interesting kind of music (like myself).
Most people who have heard my music so far are fans of extreme doom, and most of those do like most of the UDOM-tracks (while 'In The Mist' seems to be hated by most). The reactions I get from these people have been very positive, they seem to like the different approach I have to extreme doom, and that's something I never expected.
The songs I've heard so far from 'Prelude To Monolith' seem slightly less depressing and oppressive than on the first two releases - there is some light visible in the darkness. Do you agree? Why is this? Will 'Symphony III - Monolith' be the same?
There's some light visible in the darkness, yes, but it's sick and cold and it's the last light you'll ever see...
I never considered my music as being depressing, although I might have used that word to describe my music to others...but that makes it somewhat difficult to answer this question. The music on 'Prelude To Monolith' will indeed sound different, and the music on 'Symphony III' will also sound different from all other things I've written, but without losing the 'UDOM atmosphere'.
'Prelude To Monolith' will be more epic and less experimental than the previous albums, on the other hand I will be trying to incorporate new elements in my music, and that's what keeps it interesting for me : always trying new things, experimenting and so on...
Speaking of 'Prelude To Monolith', I believe this will be released by the new Finnish label Firebox. How did you get in touch with them? What do you think working with them will offer? Does the deal cover 'Symphony III - Monolith' as well?
One of the people behind Firebox read a review on my demos and that review mentioned something like 'UDOM makes Cathedral sound like speed metal' and he was impressed and I send them the demos and the new material I was working on and they offered me a one-album deal.
Now that UDOM is signed, this might make UDOM more known, and hopefully this will also draw some more attention to my other projects, another important thing is that Firebox already has several years of experience with distribution. I don't really care about the financial side of things, as long as I can get enough money to make up for all the free copies I gave away so far...
'Prelude To Monolith' will include your excellent 'cover' of Chopin's 'Marche Funèbre'. Why have you chosen to play this? What do you think of Candlemass's version of this piece?
In the first place I have chosen this track because it's simply an excellent track. I also want to show that 'doom' is timeless and that even the classical composers knew how to create 'funeral doom' tracks, it doesn't get more 'funeral' than a funeral march. The term 'Funeral Doom' has been used to describe several bands, but some (in my opinion) don't deserve this 'funeral' aspect (I am not even sure if UDOM can be considered as funeral doom, I don't care to be honest), people seem to forget that funeral doom can only be created with guitars and grunts and to me, Chopin (and several other classical composers) have proven otherwise. Doom is not just something of the last 30 years, good artists/composers who care about bringing emotional music with certain depth, with several layers of feelings have been creating doom for ages. I think that doom (and not just the metal subgenre) is the only kind of music that has a chance to remain (underground of course), as long as there are humans on this planet, there will be suffering and the few who use this as a source of inspiration for their music...
I don't know the reason why Candlemass decided to cover the it, but they did a great job. Candlemass is a band who has experimented quite a lot and this cover is one of those many 'special' things they've done and therefore they deserve my respect. A great band, indeed.
'Prelude To Monolith' will also feature a remake of 'Absence Of Life' from 'Symphony II'. How will this differ from the original version, and why did you feel it necessary to remake it?
This version will be a bit slower and heavier, the balance between guitars and flute will be better, the 'metal' element is a bit more upfront.
I have made lots of remakes of my tracks, the most important reason is that I am almost never 100% satisfied with the tracks, there are always small things that I want to change and once I start changing things, I can never stop : new ideas pop up, I want to experiment with certain tings, try to do things in a different way and so on. Another reason, especially true for the track 'Absence Of Life', is that it's somewhat a connection between 'Symphony II - Absence Of Life' and 'Prelude To Monolith'. Now with Firebox releasing my first 'real' album, I don't want my demos to be forgotten, to me they are as important as the new album and 'Prelude To Monolith' would be incomplete without the demos.
So far, all of your releases have been completely recorded at your home studio. What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of this? Will you continue to record at home now that you are signed to Firebox?
The entire process of recording and mixing music really interests me, I am even thinking about getting my own semi-professional studio in the (distant) future. The advantage is that I have complete freedom and total control. I can record albums at ease, it might even take 6 months or more, while, in a real studio, this would cost a fortune. I also believe that UDOM doesn't need a top-quality sound. I am satisfied with the sound-quality and that's the only thing that matters.
A possible disadvantage might be the lack of professional equipment, but this usually means that I have to look for another way of recording/mixing things and in most cases it has a positive outcome.
The album for Firebox is recorded at my home-studio, however, the mastering will take place at a professional studio. I have mixed feelings about this, because I don't have that total control anymore, but on the other hand I am also sure that the sound-quality will improve.
I really like your home-made sound, because I think it helps create a very dark and sombre atmosphere. But sometimes I wonder what UDOM would sound like you had the sound of Shape of Despair. What do you think? Would you like this type of sound if you had the money?
Glad to hear you like the sound. That dark and sombre atmosphere is really what I tried to create.
I like the sound of SOD, my favorite album is 'Shades Of...', although 'Angels Of Distress' has an amazing sound-quality I don't think it really suits the music, here the quality has taken away some of the atmosphere. I don't want that to happen to UDOM, I know that the recording/mixing of my music is far from professional, but the important thing is that it's perfect for my music. I know what I am capable of when it comes to mixing and recording, so I can adjust the music to that and on the other hand I can experiment with mixing/recording techniques in the area of this kind of music production.
Tell me something about UDOM's lyrics. Do you consider lyrics as important as music, or something secondary?
Lyrics are as important as the music. During the first months of UDOM's existence, I only wrote lyrics, the music came later on...after several years I write both lyrics and music at the same time, so both can be adjusted to the other, but the lyrics never lost their importance. I know that my vocals are not easy to understand, so I am actually forcing people to read the lyrics, when you read something, it has more chance of being remembered or interpreted correctly than when heard. Also, thanks to this approach I have more freedom when it comes to vocals, I use my voice as an instrument and it's not as upfront as with most other bands who strive to put the lyrics/vocals on top of the music.
All UDOM's music so far is written in order to tell something, this is quite possible to do without the use of lyrics, but when I want to make sure that whatever I tell is passed onto the listener I provide these lyrics as well. Most of my other projects are completely instrumental, there I leave it to the listeners to create their own 'stories', guided by my music. But all tracks, of all my projects are a part of the same 'story', I am actually working on writing it down and perhaps I will put it online in some form or another...
The term 'doom metal' is used to describe bands as diverse as Black Sabbath, Candlemass, Khanate, Skepticism and Electric Wizard (or even bands like Theatre of Tragedy or Orange Goblin who are sometimes referred to as doom, but simply are not). Do you think there is any common factor linking all the different types of band called 'doom metal', or do you think the term has become meaningless? Would you call UDOM 'doom metal'?
I don't call UDOM doom-metal anymore. I hardly even use the term doom-metal, to me it's either doom or not doom, doesn't have to be metal at all. And most of the bands that are considered doom-metal these days are not at all considered doom by myself.
Another one of your projects is Fall of the Grey-Winged One. What can you tell me about this project?
It started as an experiment, just to see if I could make something such as drone. And I was quite satisfied by the way it sounded, but it's not drone in the vein of 'Earth' or 'Sunn O)))', it's more ambient, and it has a industrial/funeral doom touch, but it's at least as heavy as the 2 mentioned bands.
I find the name Fall of the Grey-Winged One intriguing. How did you think of this name, and what meaning does it have for you?
Grey-Winged One refers to myself, just another way of putting my nickname 'the lesser angel', it's also a part of some grand 'story' I am working on, somekind of 'grand unification theory' that connects all my projects, here, the 'grey-winged one' is not a character, but rather an epitome of emotions and feelings, more correctly it's the epitome of the absence of certain emotions and feelings.
I'm not a big fan of drone usually. I don't think I understand it, and to me it often seems like guys tuning up their guitars very slowly. But Fall of the Grey-Winged one seems more interesting and musical - though it's mainly droning, I think there is a really good atmosphere. What do you think of this?
Drone is quite minimalistic music (older 'Earth' material), but it works on several layers, it might be hard to get through the first layer, which might be 'just drone', but -especially true for Earth- I have found that there's much more to it than 'just drone', it's not just trying to create the heaviest, most nihilistic and stretched out tones. That's what I've tried to do with my project also, giving it a certain depth.
Fall of the Grey-Winged One's only release so far has been 'Aeons of Dreams'. How have reactions to this been? When will there be another release?
Well, for starters it was 'album of the month' at doom-metal.com, this is very high praise, since 'Aeons Of Dreams' is far from the 'usual' doom. Other reactions have been either very positive, or people asking me 'what the hell is this shit?' (which is actually a nice thing to hear one say about my music, it proves somewhat that I have created something unusual). I didn't expect this, most certainly not the 'album of the month' thing.
I am working on new material, some of it is for a live gig I will do in april as opener of the Belgian Doom Night (Skepticism is headliner), some other material is for the next album. Working title of this album so far is 'Death Time Emptiness'.
Your third extreme doom project is Beyond Black Void. How would you describe this project and its music? What atmospheres and emotions do you aim to create with it? When will the first release be available?
This is my most active project at the moment, also the most personal, the one that manages to complete express what I want to with this music. It's very minimalistic, and not just musical-wise, when it comes to the actual concept, I kept it simple, I didn't try to put in complicated combinations of emotions or feelings, rather I just focussed on one thing I wanted to express and dedicate an entire track to it and this results in long tracks, because I do add a lot of detail. For instance, the track 'Storm Over Jupiter', it's about the very last thing some-one sees before he/she slips into the eternal darkness of the void, it's about one moment of time, very short, but the track itself lasts over 30 minutes.
Musical-wise, I only use guitars and a few timpani beats and some vocals. Despite the minimal amount of instruments the music is very atmospheric. It's a combination of ultra-heavy rhythm guitars and some of the slowest guitar leads ever. At times it's so heavy and atmospheric it has a certain 'dark ambient' feeling.
The first release will be available in January, it will be a 70-minute album with 3 tracks, entitled 'Desolate', I already have plans for a next album.
When I first heard UDOM, I couldn't really imagine anything being slower and more depressing, yet that is what Beyond Black Void is. Are you going to surprise me in future with an even SLOWER and MORE DEPRESSING project? Is it possible to be too slow?
The main problem I have is that I can't always create the music I want to create, the first versions of some of my tracks are much slower than the actual versions I release, sometimes it's just impossible to record it, most instruments aren't build to create such slow and extreme music. From that point of view it's possible to be too slow, if there were no limitations when it comes to instrumentation or recording equipment, I could go a lot further. But this also means I have to look for other, unconventional ways to deal with my instruments and this usually results in interesting new ideas I can use, the more I discover, the more extreme music I can create. Actually, this 'experimentation' is what keeps it interesting.
The main idea behind 'Beyond Black Void' is quite old, but only recently I managed to get that typical guitar-sound I was looking for, and now that I just bought a new guitar, this guitar-sound gets even closer to what I have in mind.
It's quite possible, that, when I come up with some other ideas or when I find new ways to create music, this might actually result in a new project...
Your final extreme doom project (and the only one I have not heard) is Cold Aeon. Tell me something about this project and any planned releases.
At the moment it is not sure if I will continue this project, but some-one I know was interested in joining this project and that's certainly a positive thing.
When it comes to atmosphere, the music has similarities with Esoteric : multi-layered heavy guitar lines with an almost dark ambient feel. So far, the ideas I am working on rage from extremely slow funeral doom to doom/death with long interludes of ambient guitar or acoustic guitar.
There are no released planned yet, I will work on the ideas I have right now and see how it turns out.
Apart from your doom metal projects, you also have a number of ambient and noise projects, and in 2002 you released a total of 7 or 8 hour long albums/demos and you aim to do the same in 2003. How do you find the time and inspiration for so much music?
Inspiration is not really a problem, with my music generally being influenced by the countless negative aspects about life I always have inspiration thanks to my miserable life.
Time is a real problem, I still go to school and on such days I can't do anything, those few hours a day are not enough, I already need several hours to get in the right mood to create music or to get started. If I have several days off, I can get started and once I start working on new tracks or start recording, there's no way stopping me. But I only have a few weeks during the year (and one long summer vacation) to create all the music I want. At the moment I have about 6 albums which are ready, but because of having not enough time I can't record them. I don't want to go to fast either, I am thinking about releasing no more than one album every two months.
Out of curiosity, how many copies have the UDOM and Fall of the Grey-Winged One demos sold?
Don't know the exact amount of sold copies, since I gave away quite a lot of copies for free, including the free copies, I send out about 160 UDOM albums and about 15 FOTGWO albums.
Have you had live performances for any of your projects and will you do so in future?
So far I didn't have any live performances, I did play twice with Pantheist as session-musician.
Quite probably I will do a live performance with FOTGWO on the Belgian Doom Night. And I am looking into the possibility of playing live with UDOM.
With the Yorkshire doom/death bands of the early 90s and Finnish funeral doom bands, it is often said that their rather depressing environment is a factor influencing their depressing music. Would you say the environment you live in has any influence on your music?
Maybe it has an influence, if the environment has an influence on me, it will certainly have it's influence on the music, I really can't tell. Although I have written music about my view upon our (sick) society, I try to avoid the life out there these day. My music has evolved and I do not longer want to put things like that in my music, everybody who takes a look at the world around him/her can surely tell something is wrong.
A lot of doom fans seem to have pretty negative attitudes towards black metal. However, I believe that truly dark black metal like Beherit 'Drawing Down The Moon', Mayhem 'De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas' actually have a lot of similarities to extreme doom. I also think black metal was one of the influences for bands like Esoteric, Unholy, Thergothon etc. What do you think? Maybe the problem is that a lot of doom fans have only heard rubbish like Cradle of Filth and Dark Funeral?
I used to listen to a lot of black metal, both Beherit and Mayhem were amongst my fave black bands, but there's too much crap these days and I will not waste my time anymore searching for that one good black metal band amongst the hundreds of pathetic bands. To me, black metal is dead these days.
Good black metal and doom can fit together and it's quite possible that some bands were influenced by black metal. For instance the first album by Dolorian is a fine example of blackish doom to me.
What are your favourite doom albums, and what new/demo bands are you listening to at the moment?
Some of my all-time fave doom albums are 'Skepticism - Aes', 'Skepticism - StormCrowFleet', 'Unholy - Rapture', both Thergothon releases, 'Candlemass - From The 13th Sun', 'Disembowelment - Transcendence Into The Peripheral', both Dolorian releases, all Esoteric albums, 'Funeral - Tristese', Hierophant, Hlidolf, Pantheist, Reverend Bizarre and Worship. Most of these are listened to quite often.
For those interested, could you list your complete discography please?
Until Death Overtakes Me - split with I Dream No More (11/2000)
Until Death Overtakes Me - Deep Dark Red (03/2001 - unreleased version)
Until Death Overtakes Me - Symphony II - Absence Of Life (10/2001)
Until Death Overtakes Me - Symphony I - Deep Dark Red (02/2002 - rerecorded version)
Until Death Overtakes Me - Prelude To Monolith (02/2003)
I Dream No More - Fade...Die (04/2002)
Fall Of The Grey-Winged One - Aeons Of Dreams (06/2002)
Tear Your Soul Apart - Undigested Remains (08/2002)
In The Mist - Lost (10/2002)
Beyond Black Void - Desolate (01/2003)
3 other releases are planned for the first 8 months of 2003.
Could you give a short comment of the following quotes:-
- "I'd rather be wretched and broken than join into your fraudulent joy, I'd rather leave my will unspoken than stain it in your sick vaudeville." (Jan Kuhanen, Unholy, from the song 'Wretched').
An extract from my fave Unholy track. I believe this track shows the discontent caused by the mindless society around us, where originality and free will are not tolerated. The lyrics are simply amazing, one of the best doom songs I've heard so far and I can relate to this, the track 'This Dark Day' I wrote for UDOM is based on the same ideas.
- "Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard are sweeter" (John Keats, from 'Ode to a Grecian Urn').
A thought-provoking piece it is, indeed. Is it a searching of a higher form of consciousness within oneself through beauty? A life without the physical aspect? Searching for the beauty within things on levels that cannot be seen by the 'common' man and his 'common' senses...
Ok, thanks for answering this very long interview. Is there anything you'd like to add?
Thanks to you for this interview and all the best with your zine. Doom on!